Poll Should Button now take a supporting role to Hamilton
- Thread starter Greenlantern101
- Start date
The dark knight has spoken.
See I don't get this. There seems to be a select group who insist in painting Jenson anever seens sone sort of mediocre bad guy with a complex about Lewis. Never seen any evidence for this. Jenson came to Mclaren because he wanted to beat the best. Thats not inferiority complex Batty thats a complament. In actual fact Lewis has refered many times to Jenson being someone he was in awe of growing up because he always had his records in karting to aim for.
The truth is we know how both would react because they are racing drivers. They'd be very quiet about it when the order came. They'd think about it for a lap or two and then they'd make it as obvious as they possibley could that they were letting them through before giving the "I'm pleased for them" and "it was for the team speech" in the press interview and then going back to their trailers to kick a few things in rage and vowing that will never happen again.
They are racing drivers. Of course thats how they would feel and rightly so. Please don't WUM us all by painting one as the honourable knight and the other as a jealous despot. Its just a bit childish
Jen, Button may be only 41 points behind Hamilton, but he is a much more daunting 88 points behind the leader Alonso. So he would have to win three races and come at least third in another, all without Alonso scoring a point, to take the lead (and that's with Webber and Vettel losing stacks of points too, not to mention his own team mate).
Lewis, on the other hand, is 47 points behind Fernando and much closer to Mark and Seb; he is less than two wins behind the lead.
Jenson may not be in a position where he should play the team game just yet, but if Lewis were to gather some momentum from Hungary and win the next couple of races, I agree with racecub that then would be the time to reconsider. At that point, Lewis would still have a realistic chance of the title while Jenson would not. If neither Mclaren driver picks up any wins soon, or if Alonso continues to score consistent podiums, then team orders will become irrelevant anyway somewhere in Asia.
Lewis, on the other hand, is 47 points behind Fernando and much closer to Mark and Seb; he is less than two wins behind the lead.
Jenson may not be in a position where he should play the team game just yet, but if Lewis were to gather some momentum from Hungary and win the next couple of races, I agree with racecub that then would be the time to reconsider. At that point, Lewis would still have a realistic chance of the title while Jenson would not. If neither Mclaren driver picks up any wins soon, or if Alonso continues to score consistent podiums, then team orders will become irrelevant anyway somewhere in Asia.
Well said RasputinLives I must admit the comment did irk me but I chose to ignore it....
Wombcat
Podium Finisher
Chad Stewarthill: I think the time is now.
The points difference between the Lotus-Renault drivers (40 points) is almost identical to that of the McLaren duo (41 points), yet no-one has considered suggesting that Grosjean should now take a back seat to Raikkonen.
4. Lewis Hamilton 117 points
5. Kimi Raikkonen 116 points
7. Jenson Button 76 points
8.Romain Grosjean 76 points
4. Lewis Hamilton 117 points
5. Kimi Raikkonen 116 points
7. Jenson Button 76 points
8.Romain Grosjean 76 points
I can't be bothered to look but I don't remember anyone suggesting that Lewis should help Jenson out last year, not even Jenson fans. I don't mean on this forum (I wasn't a member then.) I mean on F1 forums in general....
RasputinLives I've started the poll, perhaps it'll be viewed a little more objectively. I agree, I think that less people would be inclined to suggest that Lotus employ team orders and Grosjean should settle as a number 2 driver for the rest of the season. Though I doubt it will inspire as much debate as thread to do with the McLaren drivers.
Mephistopheles Last year was a little different as Hamilton was ahead of Button on points this time last year and by the time Button was ahead he had no realisitic chance of catching Vettel.
Mephistopheles Last year was a little different as Hamilton was ahead of Button on points this time last year and by the time Button was ahead he had no realisitic chance of catching Vettel.
Four different drivers, two different pairings.
It's possible for some people to think it's more likely that Hamilton will finish ahead of Button, rather than Raikkonen finishing ahead of Grosjean.
And vice versa.
And, based on history, Hamilton has a better chance of winning the championship than Raikkonen due to McLaren's resources and development rate in the second half of the season.
I don't want to get too far off topic here but thats not true. The Enstone team have just as much history as Mclaren in developing a car to be far superior at the end of the season than at the begining. Both have been hit and miss over the years but both have had similar success and failures. If your, based on history, is a reference to the 2009 season I suggest you take a look at how much the Enstone boys improved that car in 2008. Don't be so quick to count them and Kimi off as I have a feeling they're actually just coming into form.
Thats off topic though. I guess the point being made Brogan is that there is always a mass amount of focus on Mclaren because they have 2 world champions in there team when it comes to 'team orders' and the focus usually suggests they lose championships because they "allow their drivers to race". Truth of it is all other teams but Ferrari do too but not as much is made of it.
Thats off topic though. I guess the point being made Brogan is that there is always a mass amount of focus on Mclaren because they have 2 world champions in there team when it comes to 'team orders' and the focus usually suggests they lose championships because they "allow their drivers to race". Truth of it is all other teams but Ferrari do too but not as much is made of it.
My point was mainly the fact that McLaren have finished ahead of Lotus/Renault in every season since 2006 (ignoring McLaren's disqualification from the 2007 constructors championship). Last year Renault started the season with a couple of podiums and then were nowhere to be seen for the rest of the season, and you mention 2008, in which Hamilton won the drivers championship and McLaren had almost double the points of Renault.
The team at Enstone do wonders with their budget, and they have a very quick car this year, but you would have struggled to find people who thought they'd finish ahead of McLaren in the championship this year and it would still be surprising if they do finish ahead of them. I think it's perfectly valid to state that based on recent history Raikkonen and Lotus are less likely to be in contention for the championship and therefore discussions about number two drivers occur less often.
The team at Enstone do wonders with their budget, and they have a very quick car this year, but you would have struggled to find people who thought they'd finish ahead of McLaren in the championship this year and it would still be surprising if they do finish ahead of them. I think it's perfectly valid to state that based on recent history Raikkonen and Lotus are less likely to be in contention for the championship and therefore discussions about number two drivers occur less often.
Thats a different argument to the one you put in original. You suggest Mclaren have a better history fo development rate. As I stated, they really don't. Of course I wouldn't argue that Mclaren were favourites to finish ahead of Enstone at start of the season and they have been in front of them for the last few years. Right now they're about level pegging though and I think all bets are off.
I'm not sure about development rate this year as they seem to have gone back to the settings of the car they had at the beginning of the year due to development not working, so in effect they have gone backwards, or at best remained stagnant.
And don't forget Lotus have developed the passive DRS or F duct and if that works as expected who know what will happen..
Don't shoot the messenger...
McLaren admits Jenson Button could be asked to support Lewis Hamilton's title bid
McLaren admits Jenson Button could be asked to support Lewis Hamilton's title bid
he says later in the year and that sounds sensible to me. I'm not against team orders in any team. Just against them with 9 races to go and 225 points still on offer.
I think what Whitmarsh said is sensible but it also shows that if he answered the question asked on this poll which includes the word "now" he would vote "no".
So don't expect team orders this weekend, because they ain't gonna happen thankfully...
So don't expect team orders this weekend, because they ain't gonna happen thankfully...
I don't know if this is a joke/rhetorical question........but last year, during the last race (Brazil) of the season, LH had a gearbox problem..up/down shift, the McLarens were 4th & 5th.......on lap 48 Lewis had to retire....Jenson picked up 10 points.
The 2011 WDC points
Vettel 392...................Before last race 374
Button 270.................." " 255
Webber 258..................." " 233
Alonso 257...................." " 245
Hamilton 227....................." " 227
LH helped Button whenever appropriate.....
In 2010,.at the last race, when LH was still in with a chance of winning WDC & JB wasn't., Button said he was driving for himself.
Turkey 2010...team orders....!
I haven't voted because team orders shouldn't be necessary, that's if drivers do the right thing.
It has been pointed out elsewhere Alonso has an advantage.with Masha.
I would hope that Button doesn't repeat what he did at Silverstone this year.....holding LH up...then letting Grosjean straight through.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/08/17/f1-fanatic-halfterm-driver-rankings-2-lewis-hamilton/
I'm sorry but I don't understand your post F1ang-o how did Lewis having a gearbox problem help Jenson?
Am I being thick or something? My original post was not meant as an insult to anyone, I truly cannot remember the points situation throughout the year last season and I truly could not remember if anyone considered whether Lewis should be asked to help Jenson or not and I truly could not be bothered to look it up.
Also Viscount answered my question quite admirably which is why I never questioned his reply.
I am at a loss to understand your sensitivity, on this subject...
Am I being thick or something? My original post was not meant as an insult to anyone, I truly cannot remember the points situation throughout the year last season and I truly could not remember if anyone considered whether Lewis should be asked to help Jenson or not and I truly could not be bothered to look it up.
Also Viscount answered my question quite admirably which is why I never questioned his reply.
I am at a loss to understand your sensitivity, on this subject...
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