Dare I mention the Piquet Jr team orders they gave?
I'll skip that. Fisi had to bow down to team orders from the Enstone boys on various occasions and they did alright there
Poll Should Grosjean now take a supporting role to Raikkonen?
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Dare I mention the Piquet Jr team orders they gave?
I'll skip that. Fisi had to bow down to team orders from the Enstone boys on various occasions and they did alright there
Good points... pitwall culprits from those days are now gone... the new mgmt don't seem to be as inclined to date supermodels... or need to give out orders to bin their cars (sorry RoGro... )
maybe they need to find which yacht Flavio is tanning his hide on and ask him for some advice
maybe they need to find which yacht Flavio is tanning his hide on and ask him for some advice
I voted no in the Hamilton/Button debate because I think Button needs to sort himself out before team orders can be considered, he's nowhere near Hamilton at the moment.
I'll vote no in this one too because I think Raikkonen and Grosjean have been more evenly matched than Hamilton and Button (Grosjean has been hurt by retirements more than a lack of pace) and I feel Lotus are probably battling for race wins more than they are battling for championships.
I'll vote no in this one too because I think Raikkonen and Grosjean have been more evenly matched than Hamilton and Button (Grosjean has been hurt by retirements more than a lack of pace) and I feel Lotus are probably battling for race wins more than they are battling for championships.
But most of Grosjean's retirements have been his own fault and mostly due to his over exuberance off of the start line, I'm not changing my vote of no but not for the reason you give...
RasputinLives Please don't bring Flabby blingboy into this it makes me feel sick whenever his stupid name is mentioned....
Mephistopheles I just think Grosjean will find it easier to cut out retirements and be more competitive in the second half of the season than Button will find it to completely rediscover his pace. Anyway, I voted no in both so it doesn't really matter.
racecub
Champion Elect
Interstingly in gary Anderson's supergrid in autosport(a measure of outright speed) Grosjean is well ahead of Kimi. It goes like this. Lewis is a whole car and a quarters length ahead. Then the cars are very close and the order is Vettel, Grosjean, Rosberg, Button, Alonso, Webber, Raikonen, Schumacher, Maldonado. Bit bigger gap then Perez, Kobi, Hulk, Di Resta, Massa. Bit bigger gap then Senna, Ricciardo. The rest quite a bit back.
Some surprises there. Big gaps between team mates except the Force Indias and the Saubers. But Grosjean clearly the faster driver at Renault yet Kimi ahead. It kind of confirms its those earlty race incidents that have hit him hard regarding point scoring.
Some surprises there. Big gaps between team mates except the Force Indias and the Saubers. But Grosjean clearly the faster driver at Renault yet Kimi ahead. It kind of confirms its those earlty race incidents that have hit him hard regarding point scoring.
I think Alonso in 6th also proves F1 is not just a speed game but has craftsmenship too it as well.
I think its very easy to just put Kimi being in front down to Grosjean's start line incidents - I think when it comes down to it Kimi is the more wiley competitor and, with the exception of Valencia, has always worked himself on to a better strategy than Romain whenever the Enstone based car has been proper competitive this season.
This is not a criticism of Romain though. I mean lets face it no one expected him to get the results he has or to be as close to Kimi as he has and as long as he's learning both from his own errors and his world champion team mate the boys going to do fine.
I think its very easy to just put Kimi being in front down to Grosjean's start line incidents - I think when it comes down to it Kimi is the more wiley competitor and, with the exception of Valencia, has always worked himself on to a better strategy than Romain whenever the Enstone based car has been proper competitive this season.
This is not a criticism of Romain though. I mean lets face it no one expected him to get the results he has or to be as close to Kimi as he has and as long as he's learning both from his own errors and his world champion team mate the boys going to do fine.
.landogeorgelewis1
Champion Elect
No Not just yet.
I think in a couple of races something like this might come into play, but with Grosjean still in with a small chance of winning the championship then i'd say not yet.
I think in a couple of races something like this might come into play, but with Grosjean still in with a small chance of winning the championship then i'd say not yet.
Button's quote of saying there are 24 drivers on the grid and it would be very boring if only 12 of them were allowed to compete is very significant and very correct, who the hell would want to watch the sport under those circumstances not me that's for sure....
It would be like ordering a football team not to allow a player to score a goal if he had the chance but was ordered to pass it to their top goal scorer so he could maintain his average, it's bullshit...
It would be like ordering a football team not to allow a player to score a goal if he had the chance but was ordered to pass it to their top goal scorer so he could maintain his average, it's bullshit...
Did he? I don't recall that but you maybe correct...
Interesting.
52% think Button should support Hamilton, yet only 20% think Grosjean should support Kimi!
No double standard there.
52% think Button should support Hamilton, yet only 20% think Grosjean should support Kimi!
No double standard there.
Example please. I don't remember this at all.
racecub
Champion Elect
Im sorry Ive searched but cant find it. The internet is just full of the current team orders debate. But let me be clear. Jenson was not saying he wanted team orders. He was saying its easier to win the championship but it doesnt happen at Mclaren.I `cant remember the actual wording.
Hmmmmmm
As I have posted elsewhere, two different teams, four different drivers, two different pairings.
Voting yes on one poll doesn't necessarily equate to voting yes on the other and vice versa.
This thread's only purpose was to try and prove a point - it is getting tiring.
You are probably right Brogan but I do think it was worth debating.
What is really interesting is that at the begining of the season if we'd done a poll asking which of Grosjean or Button will have to bow to team orders first this season I'm pretty sure 90% would have voted Grosjean yet here is in exactly the same position as Jenson and the majority are arguing that actually he should be in an even better position than he is. I think that equals a big thumbs up for Romain's first half of the season even with his incidents.
*goes off to start a "Should Massa now take a supporting role to Alonso" poll*
What is really interesting is that at the begining of the season if we'd done a poll asking which of Grosjean or Button will have to bow to team orders first this season I'm pretty sure 90% would have voted Grosjean yet here is in exactly the same position as Jenson and the majority are arguing that actually he should be in an even better position than he is. I think that equals a big thumbs up for Romain's first half of the season even with his incidents.
*goes off to start a "Should Massa now take a supporting role to Alonso" poll*
I agree with your general points, which is why comparing the two situations is a flawed premise.
If you had done that before the first race, the majority of people would still have voted yes
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