Rival Championship!

[Galahad]

Max may believe that what he proposes is the best for the sport, but so do FOTA. It's too easy to suspect one side or the other of darker motives.

FOTA have clear issues with three areas: Regulations, Governance and Commercial.

The regulations may have sparked this off, but they're not the main issue any more. The manner in which Max and the FIA have governed the sport over recent years has made many of the sport's participants unhappy - from the introduction of V8 engines, through to the KERS system, the treatment of McLaren, the revelation of secret deals with Ferrari and now the unilateral imposition of a budget cap without consultation.

A breakaway also allows the teams to free themselves from the commercial shackles of Bernie and CVC, allowing them to take more of the money that they believe they are largely responsible for generating in the first place. This money, rather than going to the banks could then be returned to the participants, allowing a self-sufficient F1 much less affected by fluctuating sponsorship markets and even the possibility of a team making a profit.

So while these may not have been at the heart of the original dispute, they have been issues simmering in the background for a very long time, and the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone seems to have been too good to miss.

 

[teabagyokel]

F1 is set to lose much more than just famous names. The eight teams bring US$2.2 billion annually to the sport.

F1 requires around US$550 million in annual revenues to meet its costs and liabilities so it needs to bring in at least this sum to remain solvent.

http://pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news ... t_id=38215

So F1 currently brings in $4.5bn, it is going to lose $2.2bn and it requires $550mn.

Is it just me or do the FIA have a bit of leeway here. I think, to use the poker terms, Max holds a flush and FOTA have just gone all in blind.

One feels their hand might just be a Pair!

 

[bogaTYR]

TBY, exactly. i was surprised by this 550 mil. it seems a wee bit low. at least much less then i had expected.

plus it gives an indication of what FOTA has to get in the kitty to get going. about 400 to 550 mil i would say. not an easy task.

and maybe they are playing at the Lewisham 'Ilton. sorry couldn't resist

 

[Brogan]

plus it gives an indication of what FOTA has to get in the kitty to get going. about 400 to 550 mil i would say. not an easy task.

As far as I am aware, every team has to stump up $50 million at the start of the season as an "entry fee".
So 10 x $50 million would give you the $500 million, not that hard to find after all.

And the only reason F1 requires $500 million each year is to service the huge debt it has.
The new series wouldn't have that so would require much less.

 

[bogaTYR]

The regulations may have sparked this off, but they're not the main issue any more. The manner in which Max and the FIA have governed the sport over recent years has made many of the sport's participants unhappy.

GM, this is like the discussion over these circuits. these 'darn tilke' circuits. its not tilke but the people giving him assignments. and i think its the same in FIA, its not 'just' max. there are more people in FIA in the loop. thats why i think that getting rid of max will not solve the problem.

 

[bogaTYR]

bro, the entry fee is 740 000 euros per team. so entry fees only would bring in about 5.6 mil. you are confused with the entry bond for new teams in F1. that is 50 mil indeed i thought.

may i explain what this 740K is for? slightly off topic but interesting. if its too off topic, just clip this part

1) A marshalling and positioning system (known as F1MS) that provides race control with real time information about a car's location on the track and enables light signals to be sent to cars. The total cost for this is 1,026,000 euros.

2) The increased use of light panels around the track to supplement flag signals - which not only provide better visibility for drivers but also give race control a more accurate record of what signals are shown when. The total cost for this is 1,232,000 euros.

3) The Surveillance Data Record (SDR), which is fitted to cars to monitor car parameters and also gather data in the event of a crash. This has been used for the past six years and, although the teams have previously paid the supplier directly, this will now be sourced directly through the FIA. The cost of this is 130,900 euros.

4) A new Pit Lane and Garage Network to provide a totally secure messaging service to replace the need for paper copies of documents from race control or the stewards. All FIA communication with teams would be done via this network and, with teams having to acknowledge receipt, it would prevent the kind of situation that happened in Japan last year when Ferrari claimed they failed to receive an email detailing the use of wet tyres. The network would also distribute the F1MS information, weather data and car data from the SDR and Standard ECU. The cost of this is 70,400 euros for each team.

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

Just seen this on Autosport

Kimi Raikonen, proving he is not dull and can communicate , has put his two cent in by saying that is 'war' is not about F1 anymore but about ego's

Thats the most sensabile thing anyone in formula one has said about this so far. And I agree with him totally
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76318

 

[bogaTYR]

kimi can be really witty at times. and he is plain right this time too. thanks AMR for this info.

 

[bogaTYR]

some additional info on this court case

"Following meetings between FIA president Max Mosley and F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone in the Silverstone paddock today ahead of Sunday's British Grand Prix, motor sport's world governing body has now decided legal action is their only recourse."

http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5389183,00.html

 

[Brogan]

Of course, the longer this gets dragged out, the worse it will be for any series.

Right now the teams are starting to develop their 2010 cars but not knowing which series or rules they'll be competing under makes that impossible.

It's in everyone's best interests to resolve this situation ASAP.

 

[bogaTYR]

ferrari replied

"Ferrari does not intend to comment on the press release put out this afternoon by the FIA," said the Ferrari statement.

"However, Ferrari wishes to make it clear that on 15th June last, it already instigated arbitration against the FIA to protect its contractual rights in its dealings with this Federation, including those relative to the respecting of procedures as regards the adoption of regulations and the right to veto."

 

[Jen]

Max may believe that what he proposes is the best for the sport, but so do FOTA. It's too easy to suspect one side or the other of darker motives.

FOTA have clear issues with three areas: Regulations, Governance and Commercial.

The regulations may have sparked this off, but they're not the main issue any more. The manner in which Max and the FIA have governed the sport over recent years has made many of the sport's participants unhappy - from the introduction of V8 engines, through to the KERS system, the treatment of McLaren, the revelation of secret deals with Ferrari and now the unilateral imposition of a budget cap without consultation.

A breakaway also allows the teams to free themselves from the commercial shackles of Bernie and CVC, allowing them to take more of the money that they believe they are largely responsible for generating in the first place. This money, rather than going to the banks could then be returned to the participants, allowing a self-sufficient F1 much less affected by fluctuating sponsorship markets and even the possibility of a team making a profit.

So while these may not have been at the heart of the original dispute, they have been issues simmering in the background for a very long time, and the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone seems to have been too good to miss.

Have to say I agree with GM mainly.

But Max is the FIA and that is the problem, his dictatorial approach which has only got worse since he wasn't put on his bike after his encounter with TNoTW (and the FIA should be holding their heads in shame). Along with the teams believing that they been have sold short monetarily and the fact that they were supposed to concur/concede to everything that was thrown at them.

Basically, Max has lost the plot and I sincerely hope this is one court action too far!

 

[Brogan]

Latest interview from Max: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8109846.stm

Listening to it I have to say the guy is so out of touch with the teams and fans it's no surprise we are where we are.
This comment for example:

"I don't want to go on too long, but the difficulty they are putting me in is that even if I wanted to stop this October, they are making it very difficult for me to do so."

Seriously?!
So FOTA are forcing him to stand for re-election, despite the fact that he already said he was going to stand again after saying in 2008 this would be his last year

Although he does name Flavio as a Bernie wannabe

 

[bogaTYR]

max does have a point bro. this whole personal attack on max is not useful and only brings lots of pointless emotion in the debate. even on this board.

myself, i am getting a bit tired of all these personal attacks on max and bernie. thats why i haven't been on these boards for a while. none of us knows either of these gentlemen and still we think its ok to attribute all kinds of behaviour to them. it even goes so far people take max's father and private life as a reason why he is not fit to run the FIA.

the best we can do in my view, is to judge max as boss of FIA, not as a person. actually, even judge goes too far in my view cos we don't know all the ins and outs so some holding back seems to be well in order. i don't agree or disagree with max as a person myself. although i do have an opinion of him as president of FIA.\

ok, end of rant

i am getting a bit bored with all of this. maybe someone can call the gentlemen and ask them to go on with the racing?

 

[Brogan]

Looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[bogaTYR]

but i missed the good natured fun so came back to haunt you all!

but still buying beers for all at the end of the day

 

[Speshal]

max does have a point bro. this whole personal attack on max is not useful and only brings lots of pointless emotion in the debate. even on this board.

the best we can do in my view, is to judge max as boss of FIA,

I tend to agree with you on the personal attacks bit however I choose to judge him as the president of the FIA.

If I can liken the head of the FIA to the head of a business, then he is in charge of a business where it has been decided by the board that they will change the employee's contracts with no consultation and has told them that they will sign without condition and that they will thrash out the details later.

Now 80% of the employees have just handed their notice in because of it and have said they are going to set their own company up, this does not sound like good management or leadership to me, does it to you?

 

[bogaTYR]

actually, i agree with you this is bad management.

however, i have been around long enough to know this happens. especially in french companies actually. most of the time, if not all the time, in the situations where i have been and this kind of management decisions happened, then there was a compromise and people were allowed to leave with dignity.

on both sides actually, cos there cannot be winners. and the only way a compromise can worl is if there are sacrifices on both sides.

 

[teabagyokel]

Well, they managed to sort out the Cuban Missile Crisis, its a pity JFK isn't around to try and sort this. Is there any way we could organise a naval blockade of Max Mosely? He's surely rich enough to have a moat...

 

[bogaTYR]

TBY

darn right there. just put the lot, FIA and FOTA on cuba and if they dont come up with a solution we can always continue the procedings in camp gitmo. there seem to be lots of vacant rooms there.

ps. would that be the moat with all the little yellow ducks?