Rival Championship!

[Boyle]

How did he ever get to the top with such poor skills at managing tricky situations?

I think the answer to that question comes at the end of this little piece - "Ask Max".

Not only will the FIA version of F1 have second rate teams but also second rate drivers.

Brawn have left with FOTA (in my opinion) on the "advice" of Mr Haug so what surprises me is that Force India have decided not to jump ship. Perhaps they see this as an opportunity to get themselves to the front of a grid. Williams were always going to be left out in the cold after being put between a rock and a hard place.

The only thing that can be certain is that F1 will never be the same again. For better or worse, who knows...

 

[GeoffP]

It's about time the F1 establishment was rocked. Hopefully it will simply mean that the current incumberances with the combined age of IRO 150 will need to come up with a more participant and customer focused approach.

What I would dealy like to see now is all the television corporations present M&B with a warning of the legal ramifications they will be responsible for if they fail to stage an F1 event in the formats defined for the remainder of their contracts.

M&B have proven their success and development of the sport, however, hands up who thinks Alexander Bell should be chairman of Vodafone...

 

[teabagyokel]

M&B have proven their success and development of the sport, however, hands up who thinks Alexander Bell should be chairman of Vodafone...

What a wonderfully eloquent way of putting it. Max is going to have to ask John Logie Baird whether the BBC is going to carry on with the FIA Championship, the teams will hopefully ask the alive members of the BBC!

I think the teams have much to gain going free-to-air. I hope they can see that, or I'll be watching Williams and Force India on BBC because I assure you, I'm not going to be getting Sky any time soon!

In actual fact, failure to go free-to-air is the only way that FOTA are going to fail with this new series!

 

[Boyle]

In actual fact, failure to go free-to-air is the only way that FOTA are going to fail with this new series![/font]

A very interesting point you make there Teabag. Back to ITV then? I'm sure they'd welcome this rebel series with open arms. Channel 4? Nah, I don't think motorsport is their style. Perhaps even Eurosport, although I doubt if that channel has the resources to televise F1 entirely on it's own. Mind you, if we all have a freeview box then if it is broadcast on Sky1 they may well be onto a winner. As you touch on yourself, many won't be willing to shell out on Sky Sports at this point in time.

I kind of feel for the BBC, though, as I think they have done a great job with this year's coverage. What will they make of all this? Probably cursing their luck.

Free broadcasting will be something they will have to get right if they want this series to get off the ground - just look at how A1GP has failed.

 

[Brogan]

Andrew Benson's blog is worth a read:

Weighing up the rivals in F1 row

 

[Muddytalker]

In actual fact, failure to go free-to-air is the only way that FOTA are going to fail with this new series![/font]

A very interesting point you make there Teabag. Back to ITV then? I'm sure they'd welcome this rebel series with open arms. Channel 4? Nah, I don't think motorsport is their style. Perhaps even Eurosport, although I doubt if that channel has the resources to televise F1 entirely on it's own. Mind you, if we all have a freeview box then if it is broadcast on Sky1 they may well be onto a winner. As you touch on yourself, many won't be willing to shell out on Sky Sports at this point in time.

ESPN are desperate to get a foothold in Europe/UK, this could be their open door.

 

[Jen]

FIA to issue legal proceedings against Fota - BBC headline only at the mo.

 

[Jen]

However, Autosport are a bit more on the ball.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76316

Max's favourite weapon!

 

[Brogan]

The FIA statement in full

The FIA’s lawyers have now examined the FOTA threat to begin a breakaway series. The actions of FOTA as a whole, and Ferrari in particular, amount to serious violations of law including wilful interference with contractual relations, direct breaches of Ferrari's legal obligations and a grave violation of competition law. The FIA will be issuing legal proceedings without delay.

Preparations for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship continue but publication of the final 2010 entry list will be put on hold while the FIA asserts its legal rights.

Typical Mosley response. I never expected anything less.

The point about the entry list being put on hold is interesting though. Almost as if the FIA isn't entirely sure of the claims it makes about Ferrari...

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2009/Pages/fota_and_fia.aspx

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

I am quite emotional at this point, so please excuse it post if it descends into to WUMming Terrarity, but right now I couldn't give a flying f**k.

This whole scenario came along because of the teams inability to balance quality over quantity and throw money at a problem. They practically forced the FIA into a corner by forcing the FIA to put budget in-place. I dont feel one bit of sympathy for FOTA and I would like to thank FOTA for destroying a sport I have loved most of my life. If they didn't want this in the first place then they should of been more willing to accept changes were doing to be made and made them them bloody selfs.

The FIA have put proposal in place in the past but NO! the teams don't like them. They want to play by there own rules where they can carry on mucking around throwing money around like it grows on trees.

The Teams and this sport have seen:
Sauber,
Minardi,
Jordan,
Lotus,
Honda,
Brabham - to an extent,
Benetton
Arrows
Ligier/Prost
all leave this sport because of escalating cost in this sport but what solution did the teams come up with........thats right NAFF ALL!

The proposals have been banded about in the past like Customer Cars to help the small privateer teams, hey its good enough for MotoGP but not Formula One, o0o0o0o we want it to be like it was in the 80's. Have Frank Williams one of the main people against this forgotten where he came from. I Bloody think so. Even is 1980's championship winning car FW07 was a bloody rip off of a Lotus. Ferrari started off as an privateer Alfa romeo team too.
Restricting Regulations therefore less development to spend money on......OH NO! we cant have that! how stupid would it be to have a sport where we have to abide by technical regulations that not only makes the sport safer and at the same time restricting costs.
and finally the budget cap. not perfect but does the job but OH NO! we cant have that! We don't like that one engine will be unrestricted, that some teams not running the budget will have there cars heavily restricted so they dont have an advantage.
Well lets now consider what amazing proposals that the Teams/FOTA have come up with.......ummmmm...... hang on i'm still thinking...... oh yeah thats right SOD ALL, NOUGHT, ZILCH ZERO NOTHING!
but yet we have teams like Toyota a useless little team who spend hundreds upon hundreds of million's on what a few points and a podium once in a blue moon..... what right do they have to make bloody demands when its obvious that they cant run a decent team as it is with one of if not the biggest budget in Formula One. Yh thats right they dont!

So Screw FIA, Screw FOTA
2010, Im gunna watching a World class series that actually gives a shit about the fans, Has great racing and is not full of arrogant egotistical morons who are to full of themselves to reach a decision about rules (And i include FIA in that)
And it isn't F1 or FOTA rip off series
Its called MotoGP,
Formula One you should take a hint from there.....because they actually know what they are doing.

 

[bogaTYR]

"a grave violation of competition law."

huh? now what is this about? could this be a hint to the european commission earlier demand on fia to split the commercial and sportive part of f1? cos if that is the case, then the new series might not be allowed to control the commercial andsportive side of any new series either.

 

[bogaTYR]

i am completely with you AMR.

i think this is all money driven from the teams and especially the bigger teams. i wrote an article to this effect earlier but thought it was too emotional so deleted it. especially the part that this fight FOTA puts up is hugely driven by a few teams who want to get back to the front of a series, any series.

basically, its back to last eyar's racing and pecking order.

 

[teabagyokel]

The FIA’s lawyers have now examined the FOTA threat to begin a breakaway series. The actions of FOTA as a whole, and Ferrari in particular, amount to serious violations of law including wilful interference with contractual relations, direct breaches of Ferrari's legal obligations and a grave violation of competition law. The FIA will be issuing legal proceedings without delay.

Preparations for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship continue but publication of the final 2010 entry list will be put on hold while the FIA asserts its legal rights.

Love it, Max, I love it! Your bluff has just blown up in your face, you still have time to be concillitory so what are you going to do?

Take legal action, great! You've absolutely nailed that one on the head, haven't you?

Essentially, Max is millimeters away from making a FOTA series (denoted FOTAWC) viable. If FOTA are clever, then FOTAWC can be a success. If the FIA are as thick as they appear at the moment, it is the end of F1.

I do think that the whole thing will be a bluff, and Max has given FOTA a small chance by delaying the entry list, essentially he's told FOTA he's still not happy, but he's not going to launch his nuke just yet!

There is still time to go back, and the power now rests with Bernie. Its his job to reunite these disperate factions, because he knows that he'll be the biggest loser if F1 doesn't go ahead next year with Ferrari & McLaren in the ranks.

Frankly, beyond Ferrari & McLaren, FOTA are an irrelevance, because they are the two teams that have a 40+ year lineage. F1 can thrive without BMW, Renault, Toyota, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Brawn. FOTAWC can only work if Ferrari & McLaren are on board and I feel that they may be the line of attack that FIA/FOM start on now.

In FOTAWC, will disputed results be decided by a FOTA-finish?

 

[FB]

Without a TV deal the FOTA plan is going nowhere. Without a TV deal the FOTA teams not supported by a manufacturer have no sponsors. From the FIA's point of view Ferrari, Red Bull and Toro Rosso are obliged to take part in the FIA F1 Championship which probably means, at the least, the FIA can stop them taking part in any similar race series so we are left with Brawn, McLaren, Renault, BMW and Toyota. What broadcaster in their right mind is going to stump up the millions of pounds/dollars/euro's that these teams will need to maintain even 50% of their current spending? Subscription TV is probably the only way, meaning a restricted audience meaning less sponsorship money.

As much as I don't agree with the FIA 2 tier championship the FIA hold all the aces and FOTA are really on a hiding to nothing.

 

[Brogan]

The whole problem in this issue is Max's ego - he thinks he is bigger than F1.

Essentially what he's saying to Ferrari is if you won't race for us then I'll make sure you won't race for anyone.

What exactly does he hope to achieve with these legal proceedings?
Even if the FIA do win and Ferrari are forced to compete in F1 next year, does anyone really think they will actually "compete" or just turn up to comply with any contractual obligations?
How would that benefit F1 or the fans?

For the sake of the sport, Max needs to go now.
Perhaps then the 2 sides can get around the table and negotiate; something Max seems incapable of doing.

 

[bogaTYR]

in lots of places in europe a TV deal will be very difficult. F1 is shown on freeview and most other motor sports on payview. i would imagine if there is a breakaway series, it will have a pretty limited audience. ESPN is mentioned, but ESPN is in most countries a payview channel or a satellite channel where most people do not have a satellite reciever. eurosport might be an option, but even that channel is not available in some places.

 

[bogaTYR]

For the sake of the sport, Max needs to go now.
Perhaps then the 2 sides can get around the table and negotiate; something Max seems incapable of doing.

bro, what difference would it make if max left? the teams will still want more money and have their own way. it makes no dfference at all who the FIA chairman is in my view. you can agree or disagree with his style but the thinking behind what he does is in the best of the sport.

all that would happen if max left, is that there would be a honeymoon period between the FOTA teams and the new chairman and then we get into the same problems. its fundamental and it needs to be solved. there are no principles but money driving all of this. the teams want a FOTA either within FIA or outside of FIA.

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

The whole problem in this issue is Max's ego - he thinks he is bigger than F1.

Essentially what he's saying to Ferrari is if you won't race for us then I'll make sure you won't race for anyone.

What exactly does he hope to achieve with these legal proceedings?
Even if the FIA do win and Ferrari are forced to compete in F1 next year, does anyone really think they will actually "compete" or just turn up to comply with any contractual obligations?
How would that benefit F1 or the fans?

For the sake of the sport, Max needs to go now.
Perhaps then the 2 sides can get around the table and negotiate; something Max seems incapable of doing.

Hmmmm....Max's ego???

What about McLaren, Toyota etc, who are leaving because they don't like the rules, but yet have not at any stage actually offered a solution to reducing the budgets in F1???

Bro there are as bad as each bloody other I don't have any sympathy for any anyone

 

[Speshal]

The whole problem in this issue is Max's ego - he thinks he is bigger than F1.

For the sake of the sport, Max needs to go now.
Perhaps then the 2 sides can get around the table and negotiate; something Max seems incapable of doing.

It's all getting very messy isn't it?

Deja Vú anyone? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FISA-FOCA_war - where I seem to recall the one of the teams was run by a certain Mr Ecclestone and FOCA's legal representative happened to be one Herr Max Mosley

Not good.

 

[bogaTYR]

here are some figures. its interesting. these 8 teams 'only' take away 47% of F1's total revenue. so f1 generates $ 4.5 bil per year. wow...

F1 to lose $2.2bn through rival series
19/06/2009
The eight teams which have announced their plan to set up an F1 breakaway series will take with them more than US$2.2 billion of annual investment into the sport, according to research from industry monitor Formula Money.

The rebel teams – Ferrari, McLaren Mercedes, Toyota, Renault, BMW, Red Bull Racing, Toro Rosso and Brawn GP – have revealed that they will begin preparations for a breakaway series after negotiations broke down with F1's governing body the FIA over cost-cutting regulations for 2010.

F1 is set to lose much more than just famous names. The eight teams bring US$2.2 billion annually to the sport in sponsorship, supplier deals and team owner contributions, representing 47% of F1’s total revenue generation in 2008. It comprises US$1.5 billion in team owner contributions, US$667 million in sponsorship revenues and US$54 million in supplier deals.

F1 is likely to suffer immediately from this development because fans will be less likely to book tickets in advance for F1 events next year. This could make it more difficult for race promoters to pay F1’s hosting fees which average US$23.7 million per race.

TV stations with F1 contracts are also likely to want to renegotiate contracts in light of the sport losing its eight top names. These teams also spend huge amounts on F1’s corporate hospitality and on trackside advertising so their departure will further impact F1’s revenue stream. F1 requires around US$550 million in annual revenues to meet its costs and liabilities so it needs to bring in at least this sum to remain solvent.

http://pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news ... t_id=38215