Michael Schumacher

The Vettel thread surprised me as such that when I searched for a Schumacher thread, I could not find one. So I propose this thread for Schumacher because regardless of your opinion whether his return is succesful or not, I think we can all agree that there's always something to talk about whether he's had a good or bad race.
Historical Discussion may be allowed on the thread as long as it's on topic.
Enjoy! :)
 
Brawn and Haug must be absolutely relieved that Renault decided not to come back from lunch! :snigger:

The field spread gaps certainly helped Michael's ultimate Grid Positioning.

6 tents off Nico in Q2 and then a huge 8 tenths off in Q3 on those Super-Softs...Schuey is lucky that only one car (the Force India) was able to get in between himself and Nico. At some other Grand Prix meetings that 6- to 8-tenths might have cost Shumi 3 or 4 Grids slots instead of the 1 it cost to Sutil.

Lucky for him that others didn't punish him more for being so far off Nico.

Hopefully he can avoid an extra pit stop to replace a broken wing tomorrow! ;)
 
As it has been noted, the past races since Spain, Schumacher's race pace has been much better, recent example, Silverstone and Germany.
 
Michael celebrates his 20th anniversary in Formula One at Spa in three weeks.

It's a long circuit...so hopefully, from Michael's point of view, Nico won't out-qualify him by more than 1 second!

Hopefully, too, he'll spend his race on the circuit and not losing positions by breaking his front wing or spining the car!

:)
 
Never fail to make a mockery of him do you Ray? After every F1 session, you are always there without fail...

Bad race from Schumacher indeed....though
 
Some nice excuses from Ross Brawn...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93641

...but no guidance about whether or not they can win next year.

At least he's not making any excuses about why Schumacher isn't fast enough.

So, if the Mercedes GP car isn't capable of winning, why spend all that money on Schumacher finishing 5th or 6th or 7th or 8th or whatever?

Ray, Schumacher is fast enough in the races (if he can cut out the mistakes). He's nowhere near fast enough on Saturday. The problem for him is, I don't see him qualifying well enough to get a really good result, except possibly Spa or Monza.
 
Branding and marketing of supercars to compete with Ferrari and McLaren etc

It's likely doing more harm than good, don't you think? Making a mockery of yourself isn't going to help build the brand.

Ray, Schumacher is fast enough in the races (if he can cut out the mistakes)...

...which means he's not good enough for the car he's got, i.e. the 4th best car in the field. If you have to caveat it, Dario, then that's what it means.

He's nowhere near fast enough on Saturday. The problem for him is, I don't see him qualifying well enough to get a really good result, except possibly Spa or Monza.

Which means he's putting himself under extra pressure in the race, right? Hence the spins and broken front wings and the like.
 
It's likely doing more harm than good, don't you think? Making a mockery of yourself isn't going to help build the brand.

...which means he's not good enough for the car he's got, i.e. the 4th best car in the field. If you have to caveat it, Dario, then that's what it means.

Which means he's putting himself under extra pressure in the race, right? Hence the spins and broken front wings and the like.

I can't disagree with that Ray, the point is he still has the race speed. Quali is killing any challenge, and trying to make up for it is forcing the errors. I don't see him wringing the car's neck in the top 10 shootout like Rosberg does. I wish he would take a few more risks, as it may pay off for him.
 
I find it hard to split Schumacher and Fangio as the best of all time, but Schumacher edges it simply as he was the modern incarnation. I think they had the biggest gulf to the rest as complete drivers. If the 2011 All Blacks played the 1973 All Blacks it would be a cricket score, so... I loved Barcelona '95, finishing 2nd in a car stuck in 5th gear for most of the race. I loved Monaco '97 and Barcelona '96 in the wet. Most of all, I love that he went to Ferrari, saying it was for the challenge, and he wan't interested in the history, when I think he knew what a big deal it would be for the sport bringing Ferrari back to the front, and I never got bored watching him win. I seem to recall Peter Windsor was one who felt we should enjoy watching his work in that era, because it was so outstanding. I had no problem with Adelaide '95; Hill was ambitious going for a gap, and it didn't come off. Jerez '97 was over the top, but all the greats have their dark moments. I had no problem with Austria 2001/2, Ferrari had lost enough titles to make them take no chances. Fangio wasn't averse to taking over a teammate's car, neither was Moss. I know he hasn't got the results in his comeback, but he's 42, and I think the lack of testing has hurt him more than anything; that, and it's hard to be at the top level in such a demanding sport for so long. But, at Canada and Silverstone he looked quick. He hasn't bitched, or blamed anyone for the lack of results, which is more than I can say for a lot of good Grand Prix drivers over the years. I don't think the standard of drivers is any better or worse than any era. Jody Scheckter was right, it can't really be measured, but chances are there's going to be a lot of hungry, talented guys out there in good cars, fighting, fifty years ago, and now, and in the future. Schumacher was so fast, technically strong, disciplined and fit that noone else was going to have a chance most of the time. I think breaking his leg probably cost him the title in '99, and he never went to the other big teams of the era, Williams and McLaren. I think the overall excellence of these guys is made up of their approach to every aspect of the job, every test, every debrief and race and session in the gym. He got it right most of the time. Who knows if Mika Salo had more natural talent? A lot of guys had the physical ability and balls and racecraft to win 60 or 70 Grands Prix. He won 91, and got at least one every year between 1992 and 2006, which I think is outrageously impressive. And... I still think he can get some results for Mercedes next year. If he doesn't, it won't change my view, I reckon he's the best ever.
 
It's a shame he never really went up against another Ace within his team who was anywhere close to being in his prime.

When you look at how many wins and titles a driver like Alain Prost shared with or lost because of his very strong teammates, you can put the two into perspective. Prost, just within his own team, had to go up against:

Lauda
Rosberg
Senna
Mansell
Hill

Arnoux arguably cost Prost a title in 82, Lauda in 84, Senna in 88 and Mansell in 90.

The level and depth of talent Schumacher had to deal with - both within and outside his team - once Mansell, Prost and Senna were gone was quite weak until Raikkonen and Alonso came along in competitive cars. Hakkinen was the only other top tier Ace in the field and he only had a competitive car for about 4 full seasons.

I find it hard to put Schumacher in the Top 4.

Senna, Prost, Clark and Fangio for me.

But, hey, we're all entitled to our opinions and i've stated reasons (other than those in this post) for mine enough times.

I'd place Schumacher no higher than 5th. Ferrari didn't have much competition between 2001-2004 and if the competition got close, the FIA would slap them down. The technical veto given by the FIA to Ferrari is one of two or three big reasons why Schumacher won 5 WDCs in a row.

The FIA, in comparison, wasn't much of a friend of Senna's as we all know.
 
*sigh* - Ray with Schumacher bashing again!

that list of drivers for Prost is very impressive if slightly misleading. Yes he did have Damon Hill as his team-mate - a Damon Hill who was ordered to follow him round and nurse him to his 4th championship so Renault could sing the national anthem.

Yes he did have Nigel Mansell as his team-mate and indeed beat him for one season. A season in which its been documented that Prost insisted on number one status and got all the updates and new equiptment first.

Yes he did partner Niki Lauda but a Niki Lauda in his second career after a break who was really due for retirement and still lost to him in their first year of competition.

Yes he did partner Keke Rosberg - for one season only and up against a Rosberg who was deeply affected by the death of de Anglelis and promptly retired at the end of the season.

He did beat Senna - you can't deny this - but if you look at the season he did you can certainly reflect that the 'powers that be' certainly played their part.

I would plump for Schumacher over Prost any day of the week on the stats of 279 Starts, 91 wins, 154 podiums, 1,473 points.

As for the idea that Schumacher only won because of the car. The Ferrari was in a shocking state when he got there and he made sure the right people we brought in to develop the car into being the race winner it was. That includes Barrichello by the way. So to act like Schumacher turned up and went "ooo this car is good" is daft.

As for the bizare notion that Schumacher had no competition this is massively wrong. Schumacher was faced with drivers that if he hadn't been there would easily have been world multiple world champions and probably making your 'greats of all time' lists - but he destroyed them both in their races and in their spirit. DC was so bothered by him that he couldn't go past him without giving him the finger, Montoya was defeated so often he turned to comfort eating and eventually drifted out of the sport and Kimi couldn't even win a race until Ferrari produced a poor car and the pressure of beating Schumi was off.

Schumacher invented modern F1 and will always be up there with the greats whether he spend 3 years pootling around in a louzy Merc or 10. The nature of being a great is that you beat a lot of people along the way and therefore upset a lot of people along the way too. Some are very good natured and accept they or their favoured driver were beaten by someone at the top of their game - whilst others continue to hold on to the bitterness and try and find chinks in the armour.
 
Laughable! But, hey, we're all entitled to our opinion.

Schumacher invented modern F1 and will always be up there with the greats whether he spend 3 years pootling around in a louzy Merc or 10

Even more laughable is that he "invented modern F1" ROFL

That doesn't mean he doesn't belong up there with the greats. He does. No one's disputing it.

I love this painting...

Scumacher.webp


What do you think of it, Rasputin? :)
 
laugh it up fuzzball - Schumacher was the first driver to build a team around him. The staff at Ferrari were brought together by Schumi because he wanted to work with them and they wanted to work with him. They had a project and an aim and they acheived that goal. By modern F1 I mean the way the teams are run and the power the driver has. Back before Schumacher we were very much in an era where the team sorted the car out and the driver turned up to drive it. Hence why Williams could just discard drivers whenever they wanted as they knew what the important issue was. Schumacher brought in the idea of the superstar driver who has influence throughout the team and every potential world champion since then has tried to create the same situation for themselves.

Kid yourself if you like but all the front runners now were bought up on a diet of Schumacher and are all trying to do things the way he did them....but better.

As for the pic - very nice. Still think I prefer Schumi in the red car though.
 
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