Clip The Xmas 
How many times has Vettel won when he has not had the best car? How many times have Alonso and Hamilton won when they have not had the best car?
The 2013 Season
- Thread starter Brogan
- Start date
It seems to me that all of this carping about Vettel always having the best car ignores the fact that Newey says he provides excellent information to the engineers for developing the car. Isn't it quite possible that the other drivers are relatively deficient in that area? And, if that is the case, why blame Vettel for being the best at development and thereby reaping the rewards for what it seems to me is half of the job of an F1 driver.
Bushi
Race Winner
Think the difference also lies in the comment he made in Singapore about the others hanging their balls in the pool.
Rosberg commented :
My guys are working so hard day and night, so what he really is implying is that he isn't.
It's know that Sebastians is the last driver to leave the paddock and maybe, just maybe that gives him the edge towards the rest of the field......both Schumacher and Senna worked in the same way and both of them were dominant racers.
Rosberg commented :
My guys are working so hard day and night, so what he really is implying is that he isn't.
It's know that Sebastians is the last driver to leave the paddock and maybe, just maybe that gives him the edge towards the rest of the field......both Schumacher and Senna worked in the same way and both of them were dominant racers.
Bushi
Race Winner
Sorry, just couldn't resist......dutch grammar police @ your service....thought that day would never come.
Is there even a shred of hard evidence that points to the fact that Vettel can "out-develop" the other top drivers by the margin RBR have done this season?
Development is done in the mind of genius designers and on computers these days. Maybe when drivers spent weeks pounding around test circuits you could point to car development as being the true deciding factor, but today it's impossible to say car development is the reason that one driver can streak ahead of his competition.
Shall we have the Vettel win in a Toro Rosso discussion yet again Bill Boddy? Because I really can't be bothered.
All I'm suggesting is that Formula 1 has always had its hieracy and when someone new breaks on the scene they belittle then somewhat. Hamilton was called dangerous, Alonso was called dangerous, Schumacher was labbeled as nasty, Hakkenien was a danger, Senna was reckless and so on and so on.
I'm just a bit bored of hearing it all and the moaning now Vettel is winning is getting a bit on my nerves. Don't get me wrong, its Mr Alonso that is the worse for it with his media quote mind games. Just a shame to see Lewis at it too.
No one is guarentted a place at the front of F1. You have to earn it every race.
All I'm suggesting is that Formula 1 has always had its hieracy and when someone new breaks on the scene they belittle then somewhat. Hamilton was called dangerous, Alonso was called dangerous, Schumacher was labbeled as nasty, Hakkenien was a danger, Senna was reckless and so on and so on.
I'm just a bit bored of hearing it all and the moaning now Vettel is winning is getting a bit on my nerves. Don't get me wrong, its Mr Alonso that is the worse for it with his media quote mind games. Just a shame to see Lewis at it too.
No one is guarentted a place at the front of F1. You have to earn it every race.
Who cares if you're bored of it? That's the current state of play.
Yeah, I guess Lewis should really shut up....
So Keke, are you now saying that Newey is spouting rubbish when he says that Vettel has been key to the car's development? By that logic, a YOU could driver the Red Bull and win the WDC!
First of all, I'm 6'6" and 230 pounds. They're not letting me anywhere near an F1 car.
And is there a designer out there that doesn't extol their WDC's development virtues. JB is the only other pilot to win in the "no-testing" era and what do you know, that was primarily down to the car as well.
And is there a designer out there that doesn't extol their WDC's development virtues. JB is the only other pilot to win in the "no-testing" era and what do you know, that was primarily down to the car as well.
Be as aggressive at me as you like Keke but there is an element of drivers thinking the sport owes them a living and there always has been and I think there is a certain element who have not earned the reputation they pin on themselves this season (please note I have not identified Lewis in this) and I would hate to see Hamilton join the hierarcy group when actually the reason he got so many devouted fans in the first place was because he came in and didn't care who he was upsetting he was just racing.
Punctuation is your friend. And I honestly have no idea what you're on about right now. You want me to say Seb is the greatest driver the world has ever seen? Sorry, that's not going to happen. 
Just look at the machinery that Alonso has every race and where he finishes then you may just see that he does earn it. The same goes to other drivers as well.
I would have thought that the lack of testing puts a premium on the driver giving quick and effective feedback - Luca Badoer isn't going to do so for them any more.
I cannot prove that Vettel is great at giving the feedback the team requires. However, that doesn't mean it is impossible.
I cannot prove that Vettel is great at giving the feedback the team requires. However, that doesn't mean it is impossible.
Punctuation is your friend. And I honestly have no idea what you're on about right now. You want me to say Seb is the greatest driver the world has ever seen? Sorry, that's not going to happen.
Ahhh picking on SPAG. I thought you were classier than that.
I don't want you to say anything. You think what you think. My original point was that I think some top drivers think they have a right to be winning races and they really don't. Not sure why the big strop and aggresive posts. As I agree with you 80% of the time on here I find your aggression a bit dis-heartening to be honest.
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You don't agree that Alonso should be closer to Vettel than he is this year because he didn't take advantage of the Ferrari's early season pace then?
Also do you think Kimi may have been able to give Seb a better race if he'd qualified higher than 10th?
Just interested because thats how I see it. Seb is dominant but no one has produced a weekend to even remotely push him recently except for Grosjean.
Bill Boddy - It's the drivers' arse strapped to the floor; a theory that the sensors tell the tram is great is awful if the drivers' style is such that it can't be pulled off.
Sticks and stones, right?
edit - And I honestly couldn't make heads nor tails of your post without a single punctuation mark.
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So we should all just sit around and wash his balls?
I don't want to get into a slanging match and yes posting off my phone does lead to bad spag and spelling errors.
I've just been dissapointed this season at the top guys abilities to string an entire good weekend together. Now if I was seeing that and they were talking about deserving to be higher then I'd agree but I don't see that.
The way I see it is that even with equal machinary Vettel would still be winning because he is the only one having error free weekends. Now I understand a lot of you will disagree with me and its not as simple as that but I see it like that.
I just long for a weekend where I can say about the pretrnders to the crown that they got the best out of the weekend they could acheive. That goes for the teams too.
I've just been dissapointed this season at the top guys abilities to string an entire good weekend together. Now if I was seeing that and they were talking about deserving to be higher then I'd agree but I don't see that.
The way I see it is that even with equal machinary Vettel would still be winning because he is the only one having error free weekends. Now I understand a lot of you will disagree with me and its not as simple as that but I see it like that.
I just long for a weekend where I can say about the pretrnders to the crown that they got the best out of the weekend they could acheive. That goes for the teams too.
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