To be fair, Alonso has a lot of those weekends.
The 2013 Season
- Thread starter Brogan
- Start date
So you're just mad that everyone else is conspiring to make the Vettel/Newey package look more dominant than it actually is. And if everyone else would just pull up their boots then Seb wouldn't have to endure the indignation of being told he has it too easy. Got it.
As I've said before, it's easy to be error free when nobody else is near you. If Ferrari, Mercedes or Lotus etc had similar pace and they were able to pressure him or even battle with him then I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be seeing an error free Seb.
Watching Alonso and Hamilton last Sunday shows exactly why they should be at the front and winning. Hulkenberg showed why he needs to get his ass fighting with the big boys too.
If you want to look at arrogance/confidence I think Maldonado's stay at home comment is more topical.
Now I'm not sure what SPAG is but I trust my proportions are correct?
Watching Alonso and Hamilton last Sunday shows exactly why they should be at the front and winning. Hulkenberg showed why he needs to get his ass fighting with the big boys too.
If you want to look at arrogance/confidence I think Maldonado's stay at home comment is more topical.
Now I'm not sure what SPAG is but I trust my proportions are correct?
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I can and have put up with a lot of crap from the FIA over the years, but if Formula One becomes the gathering place for weight watchers and all the drivers become 4' 7" tall tipping the scales at 6 and a half stone soaking wet then I just may have to say bollocks to it....
So when the teams get to the initial tests of the year they haven't even started on the design of the car since they haven't had any feedback from the driver. An interesting theory, all that work and development is done between the first day of testing and the first race of the year.
Alonso and Ferrari didn't do so badly in Spain in what was certainly not the fastest car. They did it with excellent driving and a very good strategy. In fact Massa got up to third, above St. Vettel despite starting down in 9th position.
rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
Are they the 'monkeys at the back'?
Actually if it was all monkeys I'd probably still watch it.
Actually if it was all monkeys I'd probably still watch it.
If I were you I would never have put that picture up, it could be taken as being extremely racist.
Bill Boddy - ...and no cars improve for having a driver giving information throughout the tests!?
Apart from the Seb bit pretty much it. Believe it or not I'd love to see someone take it to Seb.
Bill Boddy I completely agree that Alonso did it in Spain but that is a long time ago now. Hamilton did it in Hungary but these are too few and far between.
I'm not talking about beating the Red Bull package all the time because we know how good it is but at least make them work for it!
Thats what I mean about Grosjean this weekend. He got himself up the grid in qualifying (the best way to stay out of traffic), got himself into second and managed to keep at a pace that meant Vettel still had to consider him and might just might panic him into an error. Now if he hadn't messed it up off the restart then you couldn't have asked more of him.
Thing is there are drivers that can do it much better than him and it kind of hasn't happened.
For instants: What could Kimi have done in Korea if he'd not had a poor quali and been up on the first or second row?
Il_leone
World Champion
The stats will say Vettel is the youngest 4 x WDC champion when you look at the history but it does not mean he was the best driver at the time and he is much better than either Alonso or Hamilton
Vettel seems to enjoy moments of outrageous fortune when compared to his rivals in the last few years which I've only seen occur with Schumacher
Horner does his usual trumpeting he will go down as one of the greatest
but definitely not amongst the greatest 3 - Fangio, Clark and Senna
Usually in past seasons drivers doing the dirty tend to get their just desserts but it seems like for Mark Webber for not being ruthless enough in Malaysia he's been punished for it with all sorts of ill fate to him and his car.
I don't think Vettel has had to drive seriously flat out and if he did he would probably win by about 30 -45 seconds each race at least such is the superiority of Red Bull
What we have not witnessed this year is enough of those moments where Vettel has shown to get ragged except maybe Barcelona unless 2010 and 2012 where he would moan about poor straightline speed or make some howlers. Its easy when you have a clear track and you don;t have to expend energy and kill the tyres to fight through the field
Vettel seems to enjoy moments of outrageous fortune when compared to his rivals in the last few years which I've only seen occur with Schumacher
Horner does his usual trumpeting he will go down as one of the greatest
but definitely not amongst the greatest 3 - Fangio, Clark and SennaUsually in past seasons drivers doing the dirty tend to get their just desserts but it seems like for Mark Webber for not being ruthless enough in Malaysia he's been punished for it with all sorts of ill fate to him and his car.
I don't think Vettel has had to drive seriously flat out and if he did he would probably win by about 30 -45 seconds each race at least such is the superiority of Red Bull
What we have not witnessed this year is enough of those moments where Vettel has shown to get ragged except maybe Barcelona unless 2010 and 2012 where he would moan about poor straightline speed or make some howlers. Its easy when you have a clear track and you don;t have to expend energy and kill the tyres to fight through the field
Horner does his usual trumpeting he will go down as one of the greatest
Usually in past seasons drivers doing the dirty tend to get their just desserts
I hope you realise the incongruity of picking "deliberate crash" Senna and criticising Vettel for doing the dirty.
Il_leone
World Champion
teabagyokel I guess that is the difference between the greats and the very good . Senna and Schumacher have the win at all cost mentality and did not really get punished for it except for Schumi Jerez 97 and Monaco 2006
Senna only really did the dirty on Prost
but with these drivers if committing one dirty deed means gaining more they will stretch to that level
Vettel threw Webber under a bus in Malaysia and it seems like Mark has never found a way back to fight whilst Seb continues to trample him and the rest of the opposition.
- Barcelona was the only time where Vettel and Red Bull looked worried after getting a pasting from Alonso and started really moan about their car killing the tyres too soon
- SIlverstone despite not finishing was a Godsend for Red Bull
Senna only really did the dirty on Prost
but with these drivers if committing one dirty deed means gaining more they will stretch to that level
Vettel threw Webber under a bus in Malaysia and it seems like Mark has never found a way back to fight whilst Seb continues to trample him and the rest of the opposition.
- Barcelona was the only time where Vettel and Red Bull looked worried after getting a pasting from Alonso and started really moan about their car killing the tyres too soon
- SIlverstone despite not finishing was a Godsend for Red Bull
Senna risked Alain Prost's life by deliberately punting him into the gravel.
Vettel decided to race a team-mate despite team orders. That team-mate had ignored team orders for years.
One of those comes under doing what you can to win, the other comes under seriously doing the dirty.
Vettel decided to race a team-mate despite team orders. That team-mate had ignored team orders for years.
One of those comes under doing what you can to win, the other comes under seriously doing the dirty.
Yes teabagyokel the teams have found that without a driver in the car it is very difficult to do fixed speed tests as the FIA will not allow them out of the garage. 
Yes, teams do get some useful feedback from the drivers but nowhere near as much as they get from instrumentation. I wouldn't mind having a bet that if a team were given the choice between having all their information from the driver or the instruments they would go for the instruments all the time. Mind you, I have learnt on here that Vettel is excellent at giving RBR details of the tyre temperatures and the quantity of air going past the diffuser.
Yes, teams do get some useful feedback from the drivers but nowhere near as much as they get from instrumentation. I wouldn't mind having a bet that if a team were given the choice between having all their information from the driver or the instruments they would go for the instruments all the time. Mind you, I have learnt on here that Vettel is excellent at giving RBR details of the tyre temperatures and the quantity of air going past the diffuser.
snowy
Champion Elect
Sebastian suffers from outrageous good fortune. Compare that to the outrageous misfortune that befalls his team mate. RBS Driver A cruises serenely towards a 4th championship, RBS Driver B announces he is leaving F1, his car ends race consumed by flames, receives 10 place grid penalty for the next race, another DNF, his car consumed by flames. Coincidence? Luck? Random? Just one of those things?
It's not that I don't believe in luck, I just believe humans are more unbelievable than we able to believe. As evidenced by events in F1.
It's not that I don't believe in luck, I just believe humans are more unbelievable than we able to believe. As evidenced by events in F1.
Keke
I should think this is proof enough:
1) Newey says Vettel's input has been essential.
2) Vettel is leading the championship.
Now, please provide even a shred of hard evidence that Vettel CAN'T out-develop the other drivers.
Add to the list this:
Newey joined RB in late 2005, too late to create the 2006 car. However, the 2007 car was all-Newey, as has been every car since then. The all-Newey cars in 2007 and 2008 took 5th and 7th in the WCC.
Vettel joined the team in 2008.
Result: 2008, second in WCC
Every year since then: FIRST in WCC. Coincidence?
I should think this is proof enough:
1) Newey says Vettel's input has been essential.
2) Vettel is leading the championship.
Now, please provide even a shred of hard evidence that Vettel CAN'T out-develop the other drivers.
Add to the list this:
Newey joined RB in late 2005, too late to create the 2006 car. However, the 2007 car was all-Newey, as has been every car since then. The all-Newey cars in 2007 and 2008 took 5th and 7th in the WCC.
Vettel joined the team in 2008.
Result: 2008, second in WCC
Every year since then: FIRST in WCC. Coincidence?
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Josh
Champion Elect
Mind you, I have learnt on here that Vettel is excellent at giving RBR details of the tyre temperatures and the quantity of air going past the diffuser.
Have you actually read that or is that just what you want to read?
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