Grand Prix 2024 Singapore Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

This weekend we heading to singapore, the original night race, bernie had many terrible ideas in his latter years in charge. but this was proof he still had glimpses of the old magic & id say his final great idea in charge of F1. an innovative idea that has revolutionised F1. with Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Saudi Arabia & Las Vegas all following suit, & this is 14th running which has now surpassed adelaide, estoril & equalled brands hatch in F1 races

If you're curious about how Formula 1's Net Zero 2030 plans align with the sustainability of night races, In 2022, it was disclosed that 85% of the grid's electricity consumption was carbon neutral. Renewable biodiesel powered 48% of the circuit & since the event in 2011, used cooking oil from food & drink vendors has been collected to convert into biodiesel. Following a successful trial with energy-efficient LED lights, all track lighting was replaced with LED bulbs in 2023, reducing energy usage for track lighting by approximately 1/3

A weird anomaly of the F1 calendar, there are only 3 surviving city states in the world. & F1 race in 2 of them Singapore & Monaco, It's unlikely we'll see a race in Vatican City to complete the set, but as they say, never say never. who doesn't want to see the pope waving the chequered flag

Singapore is among the 20 smallest countries in the world, with a total land area of only 682.7 square kilometres, which is the similar size as Madrid

also something to think about when you see the iconic view of the singapore flyer or the marina bay sands Hotel on the broadcast. Buildings in Singapore cannot be higher than 280 metres

The big news coming into F1 is that we all expected this would be Riccardio ongoing Farewell to F1, in a shock twist we all expected we would be saying goodbye in Abu Dhabi. but it news is growing stronger that we maybe saying goodbye this weekend. Liam Lawson will be brought in after the autumn break when he get back going in a months time at Austin

Last race for Daniel Ricciardo at Singapore GP: Rumour, contract clause addressed

Daniel Ricciardo has addressed rumours that he could be replaced by Liam Lawson at Red Bull VCARB after the Singapore Grand Prix.

www.planetf1.com

 

[Speshal]

George looked like he'd gone over to the dark side after the finish.

 

[Bill Boddy]

As far as I can make out Perez is there to save the Mexico race.

 

[F1Brits_90]

As far as I can make out Perez is there to save the Mexico race.

i think youve stumbled upon something huge. unless im putting 2+2 & getting 5.

you would assume. its the final mexican gp in 2025 as perez wont be on the grid & ticket sales will struggle

Formula 1 to race in Mexico City until 2025 | Formula 1®

The Mexico City Grand Prix at the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez will remain on the calendar until 2025, inclusive, following an agreement between F1, the Government of Mexico City and the race promoters.

www.formula1.com

 

[cider_and_toast]

The only way that theory works is if there's something in it for Red Bull.

There's no specific benefit to Red Bull to race in Mexico over and above any other team other than they currently have a Mexican driver. Perez is surely hurting their performance at the moment more than being Mexican is helping?

 

[F1Brits_90]

i heard that stories of perez & Mexico but it came from liberty media

 

[Wombat]

McLaren clearly have the fastest car at this point of the season. Norris just cruised to the win. If McL had started the season like this they would now be leading both championships. I’m not sure how close Ferrari is to McL (had they qualified higher up we would probably have a better idea) but they appear to be second quickest. Some teams are still complaining about the McL’s “flexi-wings.” I have no idea how valid their case is. However, strictly from a technical perspective I am curious as to whether their wings are as important and effective a component re. McL’s current advantage as other teams are claiming. In other words, if their wings were deemed illegal by the FIA would McL’s pace show a similar drop as happened with RB?

 

[Wombat]

For a top team that has achieved so much, Merc displays a surprising tendency for making stupid, nonsensical, head-scratching bad strategy calls. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw that Merc put Lewis on the grid with soft tires! I immediately knew at that point that his race had been compromised and that he would be going backwards. What possessed Merc to make such a stupid, unnecessary strategy call? Even every regular F1 fan knows that the Singapore race is a one-stopper and that the first tire stint is a major tire management affair; that as a consequence of the reduced, managed pace the cars--right down the field—tend to be bunched together in strings of DRS trains and inside the pit stop delta of the front runners for an extended period; and that as a further consequence of that, if a front runner has to pit early he will then come out well back in the field; that because it’s such a difficult track for overtaking (with this being further compounded by having to deal with DRS trains) he will lose too much time trying to work his way back through the field and is then sure to be overcut by at least one of the cars that had been running behind him before his stop; that having to run such a long final stint his tires will be well worn during the final segment of the race, thus leaving him a sitting duck for cars that had pitted much later and have much fresher tires. It was hardly a surprise that this was the reality of Lewis’ race. The absurd strategy allowed him to be overcut by George and in addition left him helpless to fight back for that position—not only was George on much fresher tires but Lewis also had to manage his pace in order to get his tires to the end of the race. And it also left him a sitting duck for Piastri and CL.

Instead of just admitting to having made a stupid, obvious loser of a strategy call, Merc has made a lame attempt to rationalize and justify it. The rationale about giving Lewis a better chance at gaining a place off the start made no sense. The run to the first corner from the front grid rows is so short there that the chances of doing so is slim unless one of the drivers botches his start, in which case Lewis might as well have been on the mediums anyway. Regardless, even if he did pass one or both cars he would still have to stop early and thus would nevertheless end up in the same bad situation of returning from his pit stop well back in the pack. Equally lame was Merc’s hoping for (banking on) an early safety car as this still would not have negated Lewis having to stop early and end up back in the pack, facing a long second stint.

Again, what possessed Merc to put Lewis on such an obvious loser of a strategy? It was so unnecessary and smacked of a sense of desperation in that it was counting on things to happen that were out of their control. Desperate strategies are something that you try when you’re far back in the pack, not when you’re sitting third on the grid on a circuit on which overtaking is so difficult! When you have a car that’s third on the grid you have a great chance of getting a podium finish. You can just go for it. There’s no need to employ a different, low percentage strategy that is dependent on low probability happenings that are out of your control (i.e., on luck)! Had they just started Lewis on mediums like every other top ten runner he would very possibly have finished in 3rd, and certainly no worse than 4th (Piastri’s superior McL would have had a shot at passing him for 3rd). Merc shot themselves in the foot and cost themselves a good possibility of a podium finish.

Adding a further unsavory element to this affair is Toto’s statement that employing this lame strategy had been a joint decision, thus deceptively intimating that Lewis had wanted and agreed to it. We now know the truth: that Lewis had vehemently argued against this soft tire strategy but Merc insisted on it anyway. Merc needs to hire a better, clearer thinking, more observant strategist.

 

[The Artist.....]

For a top team that has achieved so much, Merc displays a surprising tendency for making stupid, nonsensical, head-scratching bad strategy calls. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw that Merc put Lewis on the grid with soft tires! I immediately knew at that point that his race had been compromised and that he would be going backwards. What possessed Merc to make such a stupid, unnecessary strategy call? Even every regular F1 fan knows that the Singapore race is a one-stopper and that the first tire stint is a major tire management affair; that as a consequence of the reduced, managed pace the cars--right down the field—tend to be bunched together in strings of DRS trains and inside the pit stop delta of the front runners for an extended period; and that as a further consequence of that, if a front runner has to pit early he will then come out well back in the field; that because it’s such a difficult track for overtaking (with this being further compounded by having to deal with DRS trains) he will lose too much time trying to work his way back through the field and is then sure to be overcut by at least one of the cars that had been running behind him before his stop; that having to run such a long final stint his tires will be well worn during the final segment of the race, thus leaving him a sitting duck for cars that had pitted much later and have much fresher tires. It was hardly a surprise that this was the reality of Lewis’ race. The absurd strategy allowed him to be overcut by George and in addition left him helpless to fight back for that position—not only was George on much fresher tires but Lewis also had to manage his pace in order to get his tires to the end of the race. And it also left him a sitting duck for Piastri and CL.

Instead of just admitting to having made a stupid, obvious loser of a strategy call, Merc has made a lame attempt to rationalize and justify it. The rationale about giving Lewis a better chance at gaining a place off the start made no sense. The run to the first corner from the front grid rows is so short there that the chances of doing so is slim unless one of the drivers botches his start, in which case Lewis might as well have been on the mediums anyway. Regardless, even if he did pass one or both cars he would still have to stop early and thus would nevertheless end up in the same bad situation of returning from his pit stop well back in the pack. Equally lame was Merc’s hoping for (banking on) an early safety car as this still would not have negated Lewis having to stop early and end up back in the pack, facing a long second stint.

Again, what possessed Merc to put Lewis on such an obvious loser of a strategy? It was so unnecessary and smacked of a sense of desperation in that it was counting on things to happen that were out of their control. Desperate strategies are something that you try when you’re far back in the pack, not when you’re sitting third on the grid on a circuit on which overtaking is so difficult! When you have a car that’s third on the grid you have a great chance of getting a podium finish. You can just go for it. There’s no need to employ a different, low percentage strategy that is dependent on low probability happenings that are out of your control (i.e., on luck)! Had they just started Lewis on mediums like every other top ten runner he would very possibly have finished in 3rd, and certainly no worse than 4th (Piastri’s superior McL would have had a shot at passing him for 3rd). Merc shot themselves in the foot and cost themselves a good possibility of a podium finish.

Adding a further unsavory element to this affair is Toto’s statement that employing this lame strategy had been a joint decision, thus deceptively intimating that Lewis had wanted and agreed to it. We now know the truth: that Lewis had vehemently argued against this soft tire strategy but Merc insisted on it anyway. Merc needs to hire a better, clearer thinking, more observant strategist.

A couple of things:

1. How do we know that Hamilton argued against it? Hamilton often comes out with perfect hindsight - usually the truth is a mix of both stories, so he may have argued, but I’d guess probably agreed to it in the end.

2. In principle, the soft tyres gave the chance of launching ahead of Verstappen - that was essentially the only way of making strides in the race

3. If there had been a safety car early on, starting on the softs would have given options.

 

[F1Brits_90]

Hamilton has spoken on social media

 

[The Artist.....]

Hamilton has spoken on social media

View attachment 17540

View attachment 17541

I thought that would probably end up being the case - Hamilton is not the only driver who blames the team publicly when things don't go quite right - he isn't the first, and certainly won't be the last. Similarly, sometimes gambles come off (see, for instance, Russell at Spa), and sometimes gambles don't come off (see, also, Russell at Spa).

 

[Il_leone]

I thought that would probably end up being the case - Hamilton is not the only driver who blames the team publicly when things don't go quite right - he isn't the first, and certainly won't be the last. Similarly, sometimes gambles come off (see, for instance, Russell at Spa), and sometimes gambles don't come off (see, also, Russell at Spa).

Verstappen in Hungary is a perfect example

 

[Wombat]

1. How do we know that Hamilton argued against it? Hamilton often comes out with perfect hindsight - usually the truth is a mix of both stories, so he may have argued, but I’d guess probably agreed to it in the end.

2. In principle, the soft tyres gave the chance of launching ahead of Verstappen - that was essentially the only way of making strides in the race

3. If there had been a safety car early on, starting on the softs would have given options.

For #1 I refer you to the link below which notes comments that were made at a sponser affair in which Lewis and George were the speakers (there are a number of other articles that carried this same story). In particular, note the following bit from the article re. George:

Russell, who also relinquished a place to Piastri’s McLaren to end up fourth, has conceded that he was aware Hamilton would be disgruntled with Mercedes’ decision.

“When I saw that, I was thinking, ‘Lewis won’t be happy’,” the Briton admitted.

Lewis Hamilton: Mercedes overruled plea to avoid Soft tyre in F1 Singapore GP

Lewis Hamilton has revealed that Mercedes ignored his desperate plea to avoid starting the race on the Soft tyre at

www.motorsportweek.com

Comments and postings that he made subsequent to this were almost certainly just diplomatic attempts by Lewis to defuse the situation and keep relations with the team as smooth as possible during his remaining races with Merc. A reminder here that all final strategy decisions are made by the team and that the drivers are contracted to follow them, whether or not they agree with them.

As for #2, I reiterate my previous points. Even if he had managed to pass Max he would still have to pit early and would be in the same bad, time losing situation back in the pack. Also, with such a short run to the first corner his chances of passing Max were slim (in fact, Lewis actually pulled alongside Max going into the first corner but the run there was so short that he wasn't able to do anymore and had to concede the corner to Max). In either case, there was no percentage in starting on softs at this circuit. It was a dumb strategy call and Merc finally admitted this.

Finally, I'll point out again that there simply was no need to go with a risky, low percentage strategy call that was dependent on fortuitous events that were out of their control and likely wouldn't produce the desired result even if they occurred. There was no need to gamble. Lewis was in a good place, he was 3rd on the grid! There was no need to go with anything other than the optimum strategy (i.e., starting on mediums). Plainly stated, it was a dumb, nonsensical, loser of a strategy and the actual race results bore this out. Case closed. And once again, it was in poor taste for Toto to essentially claim that it was only in hindsight that the folly of this lame strategy became evident.

 

[Wombat]

Hamilton has spoken on social media

I refer you to the below article that I previously noted. I also reiterate that comments and postings that he made subsequent to this (such as the one you posted) were almost certainly just diplomatic attempts by Lewis to defuse the situation and keep relations with the team as smooth as possible during his remaining races with Merc.

Lewis Hamilton: Mercedes overruled plea to avoid Soft tyre in F1 Singapore GP

Lewis Hamilton has revealed that Mercedes ignored his desperate plea to avoid starting the race on the Soft tyre at

www.motorsportweek.com

 

[steveg]

For #1 I refer you to the link below which notes comments that were made at a sponser affair in which Lewis and George were the speakers (there are a number of other articles that carried this same story). In particular, note the following bit from the article re. George:

Russell, who also relinquished a place to Piastri’s McLaren to end up fourth, has conceded that he was aware Hamilton would be disgruntled with Mercedes’ decision.

“When I saw that, I was thinking, ‘Lewis won’t be happy’,” the Briton admitted.

Lewis Hamilton: Mercedes overruled plea to avoid Soft tyre in F1 Singapore GP

Lewis Hamilton has revealed that Mercedes ignored his desperate plea to avoid starting the race on the Soft tyre at

www.motorsportweek.com

Comments and postings that he made subsequent to this were almost certainly just diplomatic attempts by Lewis to defuse the situation and keep relations with the team as smooth as possible during his remaining races with Merc. A reminder here that all final strategy decisions are made by the team and that the drivers are contracted to follow them, whether or not they agree with them.

As for #2, I reiterate my previous points. Even if he had managed to pass Max he would still have to pit early and would be in the same bad, time losing situation back in the pack. Also, with such a short run to the first corner his chances of passing Max were slim (in fact, Lewis actually pulled alongside Max going into the first corner but the run there was so short that he wasn't able to do anymore and had to concede the corner to Max). In either case, there was no percentage in starting on softs at this circuit. It was a dumb strategy call and Merc finally admitted this.

Finally, I'll point out again that there simply was no need to go with a risky, low percentage strategy call that was dependent on fortuitous events that were out of their control and likely wouldn't produce the desired result even if they occurred. There was no need to gamble. Lewis was in a good place, he was 3rd on the grid! There was no need to go with anything other than the optimum strategy (i.e., starting on mediums). Plainly stated, it was a dumb, nonsensical, loser of a strategy and the actual race results bore this out. Case closed. And once again, it was in poor taste for Toto to essentially claim that it was only in hindsight that the folly of this lame strategy became evident.

I've listened to Mercs reasoning (for putting Hamilton on softs) and it was as weak as dishwater - also I could loosly buy it IF it had been applied to both cars.

 

[F1Brits_90]

my guess on lewis hamilton softs issue. did mercedes go for the soft strategy because they were expecting the race to be ran at the usual pedestrian pace where they are 10secs off the pace. running at 50% of what the cars capable of. but mclaren went as fast as possible stopping anyone from protecting their tyres