Jos the Boss
Champion Elect
Laugh now but I bet Red Bull can end up like the fan car!
Pre-Season Winter testing : 2014 Season
- Thread starter Greenlantern101
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There's been some mutterings that Renault aren't happy with the way Red Bull have packaged the electronics in their car.
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
Semi-half inched from a comment in another place, below is a phrase that if spoken very slowly sounds somewhat different to what we have been used to. Maybe it's premature now but the question "What is in a name?" springs to mind. Say this very slowly with "soft R's":
"Red Bull R B ten"
"Red Bull R B ten"
Il_leone
World Champion
downforce
I am enjoying Red Bull's failure because then we don't have to hear that smug Christian Horner giving all the accolades over the radio like we did last year but then we might hear some miserable excuse - blame the tyres not suiting the car like they did last year or that other teams have cheated
and we get to see just how good Vettel and Horner are dealing with crisis situations with the team. Lets who snaps first
I am enjoying Red Bull's failure because then we don't have to hear that smug Christian Horner giving all the accolades over the radio like we did last year but then we might hear some miserable excuse - blame the tyres not suiting the car like they did last year or that other teams have cheated
and we get to see just how good Vettel and Horner are dealing with crisis situations with the team. Lets who snaps first
Il_leone
World Champion
I wonder if Helmut Marko will make some assessments or comments if the team is not performing who's fault it would be
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The Newey philosophy of tightly compacting the car's components in search of downforce looks to have come unstuck with current powertrain and ERS which are heavy
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It is ironic a bit that Red Bull during their period of domination had a lot of KERS issues in trying to acommodate it and not sacrificing aerodynamic downforce
Newey will eventually get it so as long as it is not a repeat of 2004 Mclaren where it was fast but fragile with the antelope nose remember anyone !
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The Newey philosophy of tightly compacting the car's components in search of downforce looks to have come unstuck with current powertrain and ERS which are heavy
--------------
It is ironic a bit that Red Bull during their period of domination had a lot of KERS issues in trying to acommodate it and not sacrificing aerodynamic downforce
Newey will eventually get it so as long as it is not a repeat of 2004 Mclaren where it was fast but fragile with the antelope nose remember anyone !
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
The McLaren suspension is not easy to copy, it would require a complete overhaul of the rear suspension along with some packaging and mounting issues. Even if the other teams decide it's worth copying I doubt we will see it on any other car before the first races in Europe, and probably later than that.
I think people are reading too much into the first test, this is a brand new era in F1 and everyone seems to think the first three days of testing are indicative of things to come...
McLaren in 2010 were nowhere in testing due to their radical exhaust system and yet they rocked up in Australia with some cobbled together heavy duty stainless steel exhaust pipes locked out the first row in qualifying and then took a one two in the race...
McLaren in 2010 were nowhere in testing due to their radical exhaust system and yet they rocked up in Australia with some cobbled together heavy duty stainless steel exhaust pipes locked out the first row in qualifying and then took a one two in the race...
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Lewywo4
Race Winner
Sushi...It looks as though other teams are taking a serious look at this innovation by Mclaren, and may be seen sooner, rather than later on other cars.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112365.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112365.
I don't really have a feeling how long these things take but this is a lot different from bolting on something like a new front wing. I've read that some teams would end up having to change the gearbox to accommodate it for example, and bits and pieces like that make me think we won't see it elsewhere any time soon. The top teams in particular have tightly packaged rear ends without much room to easily make such a significant change.
I was just speculating on the timeline but, unless other teams had already considered that design, there's not long until the first race and they already have a lot on their plate... especially the Renault teams! The first four races are all fly aways so I think it would be amazing if anyone has it before Spain in mid May.
We'll see I guess. The other teams might run simulations and decide the aerodynamic benefit is too small to be worth the hassle, it's impossible to say how it will all turn out right now.
I was just speculating on the timeline but, unless other teams had already considered that design, there's not long until the first race and they already have a lot on their plate... especially the Renault teams! The first four races are all fly aways so I think it would be amazing if anyone has it before Spain in mid May.
We'll see I guess. The other teams might run simulations and decide the aerodynamic benefit is too small to be worth the hassle, it's impossible to say how it will all turn out right now.
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
It's no surprise that other teams are taking a keen interest in it but I doubt anyone will rush into copying it. They will want to fully understand what it is doing and whether it works well enough to justify the investment of time and money. From the images I've seen it is hard to tell exactly what might be going on there. It resembles a really deep rear wing element and may well induce a great deal of downforce but, in doing so, rather a lot of drag. The large exhaust outlet may compensate for - i.e. reduce - the drag because the hot exhaust gases may draw the cooler air away. However, if they don't then acceleration in higher gears and achievable top speed may be compromised. It's certainly an interesting item and something to watch out for on other cars.
The info' that will be interesting for us will be any data on cornering speeds and comparisons with other cars speeds through the traps. If the thing confers more downforce on the rear than the competition we should expect to see the McLaren drivers making better starts and getting on the gas earlier on the exits of corners.
Oh, and a less radical arrangement may not be as difficult to back engineer as is currently thought. It depends on how the thing is mounted. It may be possible to create something similar as part of the structure of engine cover since I doubt it is attached directly to any moving components of the suspension That, I suspect would be illegal since dimensions and shapes of suspension arms and prop-shafts have design limitations imposed in the tech regulations.
Edit: Thanks Mephistopheles for your customary interjection to stop us boring types having a technical chat
The info' that will be interesting for us will be any data on cornering speeds and comparisons with other cars speeds through the traps. If the thing confers more downforce on the rear than the competition we should expect to see the McLaren drivers making better starts and getting on the gas earlier on the exits of corners.
Oh, and a less radical arrangement may not be as difficult to back engineer as is currently thought. It depends on how the thing is mounted. It may be possible to create something similar as part of the structure of engine cover since I doubt it is attached directly to any moving components of the suspension That, I suspect would be illegal since dimensions and shapes of suspension arms and prop-shafts have design limitations imposed in the tech regulations.
Edit: Thanks Mephistopheles for your customary interjection to stop us boring types having a technical chat
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As far as I've understood the wishbones block the air flow, creating a low pressure area behind them that helps to suck more air underneath them and through the diffuser. The wishbones are also angled as much as the regulations allow to provide some downforce directly I believe, but it sounds like the main effect is the secondary one of getting more out of the diffuser.
There are other complications with getting it to work though as the wishbones are mobile. I think in theory it's meant to provide less drag under acceleration (higher ride height) than under braking (lower ride height) but this is really stretching what I've been able to understand.
Like you, to me the whole thing just looks like a whole heap of drag but McLaren obviously think the downforce gained is worth it.
There are other complications with getting it to work though as the wishbones are mobile. I think in theory it's meant to provide less drag under acceleration (higher ride height) than under braking (lower ride height) but this is really stretching what I've been able to understand.
Like you, to me the whole thing just looks like a whole heap of drag but McLaren obviously think the downforce gained is worth it.
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So Newey could be out-diffusered? This gets better by the day.
soccerman17
Race Winner
Everyone is so excited at the prospects of Red Bull not being dominant. And while I am too, I really do hope that they are at least competitive at the front of the field.
Frankly, I could live with Red Bull having a season like McLaren's last year...
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