I wonder what questions he was given and what the full answers were.
Poll Should Button now take a supporting role to Hamilton
- Thread starter Greenlantern101
- Start date
I've voted no, not because i favour one driver ove another but because I don't think this is the kind of season where you can risk putting all your eggs in one basket. Mclaren seemed to lose there way after a great start and now seem to be getting back on track but we've seen this season how a small mistake can leave one driver on the podium and another out of the points. The constructors title needs two consistent cars.
Wombcat
Podium Finisher
If the teamorder led to Massas' underperformance now, in my opinion that reflects badly on him. I don't recall another driver who drove so much worse after a teamorder. So if that's what caused it, in my opinion he's just not mentally stable enough for F1.
Didn't Kovalainen support him in 2008?
cider_and_toast: in my opinion they don't have to put their eggs in one basket. But it just makes sense that if towards the end of race Button leads Hamilton, that Hamilton gets the bigger share of the points. It doesn't compromise the WCC and helps the WDC.
If in 1987 Williams would have done with either of their drivers, one of them would have become WDC.
Wombcat I dont disagree with you, but there is almost certainly more to the situation at Ferrari than meets the eye. For example, the press that Massa received in Brazil following the race was bound to affect him, then, when he did have issues getting to grips with the car, the confidence drops, and then, knowing that even if you do get ahead, you are unlikely to stay there must be fairly crushing. I think it would take an incredibly strong person to go through what Massa has been through and emerge unscathed.
Wombcat
Podium Finisher
Yes, he must be strong. I don't know exactly what he gets paid, but it's quite a lot. So he should be able to bear it. If not, he's not qualified for the job.
Having said that, I also think that Ferrari handled the situation very poorly. At that time teamorders were not allowed. But a ban on teamorders is hard to police, unless you give them in the way Ferrari did. They should have briefed their riders beforehand what to do, so they didn't need any radio messages. That way there would have been no proof that there were teamorders. You might say that would be cheating, but that's what you get if you enforce a rule, which you know can't be policed.
Meanwhile BTW in 2008 and 2009 it was totally clear that both McLaren and Ferrari employed teamorders at moments when Kovalainen, Massa and Raikkonen jumped out of the way when the standings in the WDC required it. According to the rules in these cases teamorders were also not allowed, because I don't think the ruling specified the ban on teamorders was not applicable if one of the drivers couldn't mathematically be WDC. So in earlier seasons everyone accepted that teamorders were apparantly given.
I didn't like the Ferrari teamorders in the Schumacher-era BTW, but that had mostly to do that they were employed from race 1. And also often the second Ferrari driver appeared to be driving slower than he could so Schumacher could open up a gap.
Edit: this is all kinda offtopic, but it's to clarify my point of view on teamorders.
Having said that, I also think that Ferrari handled the situation very poorly. At that time teamorders were not allowed. But a ban on teamorders is hard to police, unless you give them in the way Ferrari did. They should have briefed their riders beforehand what to do, so they didn't need any radio messages. That way there would have been no proof that there were teamorders. You might say that would be cheating, but that's what you get if you enforce a rule, which you know can't be policed.
Meanwhile BTW in 2008 and 2009 it was totally clear that both McLaren and Ferrari employed teamorders at moments when Kovalainen, Massa and Raikkonen jumped out of the way when the standings in the WDC required it. According to the rules in these cases teamorders were also not allowed, because I don't think the ruling specified the ban on teamorders was not applicable if one of the drivers couldn't mathematically be WDC. So in earlier seasons everyone accepted that teamorders were apparantly given.
I didn't like the Ferrari teamorders in the Schumacher-era BTW, but that had mostly to do that they were employed from race 1. And also often the second Ferrari driver appeared to be driving slower than he could so Schumacher could open up a gap.
Edit: this is all kinda offtopic, but it's to clarify my point of view on teamorders.
Kewee
Race Winner
This sport, like most others is about winning championships, the drivers title and the constructors. There is also obscene amounts of sponsorship money involved and sponsors want results. Although teams want both their drivers collecting good constructors points the real attention falls on the drivers title and it's very rare for a driver to win the championship when he's having to fight his teammate as well as the rest of the front half of the grid. This is a major reason Alonso has found himself with a 40 point lead with nine races to go. He's outclassed Massa so Ferrari haven't needed to use team orders, but if McLaren and Red Bull had favored one of their drivers sooner Alonso wouldn't be in the position he's in now. For me I've never had a problem with team orders, in fact it's been a major part of the sports history since the fifties, and was also during the pre-war European Championship. I'd much sooner watch major rivals in opposing teams battling it out than teammates rubbing wheels and risking taking one another out. That makes no sense to me and nor to the teams and their sponsors I would think.
snowy
Champion Elect
Demotivating any driver in any team is a very dangerous road to go down. It works for Alonso because he is totally rounded and fully capable of driving, developing and inspiring a team. He and Ferrari do not need Massa to perform... or do they?
Mclaren definitely need an inspired and happy Jenson Button to keep the teams momentum. It also helps if he is disgruntled with the car, since Lewis' tendency to drive round issues doesn't always lead to solutions.
Mclaren definitely need an inspired and happy Jenson Button to keep the teams momentum. It also helps if he is disgruntled with the car, since Lewis' tendency to drive round issues doesn't always lead to solutions.
No is the answer from Button. http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12479/7979063/Button-I-can-still-win-title
I'd respect drivers much more if they just consigned to the fact that they have very little chance of winning the title and supported their team-mate who has a reasonable chance of a successful title challenge. Their good faith may even be repaid should the positions reverse the next season.
I'd respect drivers much more if they just consigned to the fact that they have very little chance of winning the title and supported their team-mate who has a reasonable chance of a successful title challenge. Their good faith may even be repaid should the positions reverse the next season.
the_roadie
Banned
I voted at the start of this thread but having read all your posts I can't for the life of me remember which way I voted.
the_roadie, the little asterisk against yes or no will tell you 
the_roadie
Banned
the_roadie
Banned
Anything that involves a good excuse for a lot of beer every now and again can't be all bad.
I'm converting from the Spaghetti Hoops Monster religion to the one where Herodotus is a god and Greenlantern101 is his prophet. You heard it here first.
No, Jenson shouldn't abandon his title race in favour of Lewis until he's mathematically out of the running.
Which, the way this season is going, should be any time now. (fnarr-fnarr!)
I'm converting from the Spaghetti Hoops Monster religion to the one where Herodotus is a god and Greenlantern101 is his prophet. You heard it here first.
No, Jenson shouldn't abandon his title race in favour of Lewis until he's mathematically out of the running.
Which, the way this season is going, should be any time now. (fnarr-fnarr!)
Button should concentrate on his own performance first, he's only finished in the top five at three races this season, which isn't doing anyone any favours. In comparison, Hamilton has finished in the top five six times having had more misfortune. Button isn't close enough to be a wingman at the moment.
I frankly don't see the difference when you have a teammate with no legitimate chance of gaining the WDC in the first place.
racecub
Champion Elect
With Barichello and Massa (initially) there was no indication they had no chance of gaining a WDC. Massa came very close in fact. And this season, there was no indication that either Button or Lewis would be in with a shout or out of it, that couldn't be deduced at the beginning of the season, and it would have been grossly unfair to relegated one of those drivers to the number 2 spot at the outset. Now its becoming clear that one driver is much stronger, and if this continues then a decision may have to be made. I think its very different to doing so at the outset. How demotivating is that!
If one of the Staff had a spare half hour then they could check this fact for me but I believe there has been a thread with this title and a vote at least once for every season Button has been Lewis team-mate. I think there might have even been 2 last year. I know quite famously our friend Ray put one up just before Canada last year (
)
Couldn't we just bump the same thread next year? Saves the time and its the same argument. Neither Lewis or Jenson will support the other one in the championship until they mathamatically unable to win it themselves. This is how it is. This is how it will ever be, This is how it should be.
)Couldn't we just bump the same thread next year? Saves the time and its the same argument. Neither Lewis or Jenson will support the other one in the championship until they mathamatically unable to win it themselves. This is how it is. This is how it will ever be, This is how it should be.
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