Michael Schumacher

The Vettel thread surprised me as such that when I searched for a Schumacher thread, I could not find one. So I propose this thread for Schumacher because regardless of your opinion whether his return is succesful or not, I think we can all agree that there's always something to talk about whether he's had a good or bad race.
Historical Discussion may be allowed on the thread as long as it's on topic.
Enjoy! :)
 
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KekeTheKing said:
And because top drivers don't come cheap.
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True.

Rumour has it that Schumacher's on 30 Million a year from Mercedes in total. Hamilton and Vettel (after RBR bonuses), however, are (on average) at half that level. Rosberg even less. I believe Nico's at 8 Million. Button's on 8 or 9 Million. Kubica was, I believe, on 7 or 8 Million.

What do you think of those numbers?

EDIT: Alonso is the anomaly because he's paid by Santander also...and Massa is well-paid because he is a Ferrari driver who nearly won the '08 WDC.
 
It's quite telling that we are all talking about a 7 x wdc in these terms - potential, getting better, improvement - if I were he I would be thoroughly ashamed to have contemplated a 'comeback' at all, never mind trying for a second year.
 
teabagyokel said:
Slightly further away than he was in 1994-2006, isn't he? Potential is no reason to have a 42 year old in the car!
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Let's say Rosberg is a top talent, and that the car is just not ready to really challenge. If MS were to get a podium or two and actually win a couple of races before his final retirement to Merc team management then Merc will have transplanted a big chunk of the MS legend away from Ferrari and home to Merc.

That might be worth a lot more in the years to come than having 2 young talents who are not going to win a WC because the car is not there
 
jenov2003 said:
It's quite telling that we are all talking about a 7 x wdc in these terms - potential, getting better, improvement - if I were he I would be thoroughly ashamed to have contemplated a 'comeback' at all, never mind trying for a second year.
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Guys like Schumacher think differently than the normal Human. I can't imagine he has felt ashamed for even a single moment. I'm sure he still feels he would stomp the competition if given the right equipment. Whether that belief is grounded in reality is completely irrelevant to a top sportsman.
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
True.

Rumour has it that Schumacher's on 30 Million a year from Mercedes in total. Hamilton and Vettel (after RBR bonuses), however, are (on average) at half that level. Rosberg even less. I believe Nico's at 8 Million. Button's on 8 or 9 Million. Kubica was, I believe, on 7 or 8 Million.

What do you think of those numbers?

EDIT: Alonso is the anomaly because he's paid by Santander also...and Massa is well-paid because he is a Ferrari driver who nearly won the '08 WDC.
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Schumacher is getting paid £7 million from Mercedes is he not? The rest is coming from somehwere else
 
Hmmm how to explain this? In Dante's Infero Ray, there were 7 levels of Hell. When they actually found the real inferno and went through all the levels and suffering there was, in fact, an 8th level and sitting in the middle of this was the Editor of the Daily Mail - there for a life of purgatory and suffering for having edited such an awful, tawdry, rag.
 
Ray, the Daily Mail is a paper read almost exclusively by old female conservative matrons

The paper Sarah Palins housekeeper might have a subscription to if she were English

A paper for whom the drivers favourite shampoo is more important than his ability
 
:) Ok.

But I do think that the 21 Million Pounds figure (which was close to about $30 Million), is a more accurate number than the 6 or 7 or 8 Million Pounds number.

James Allen and other sources confirmed those numbers. So eventhough the link I gave may belong to a rag, it's not as far off the mark.
 
Not much change, then. Still 4-tenths off Rosberg when it matters most...but a rather costly 4-tenths this time given the tight field spread.

I still don't see why they're paying him three times more than Rosberg to qualify the car poorly.
 
Cookinflatsix said:
Let's say Rosberg is a top talent, and that the car is just not ready to really challenge. If MS were to get a podium or two and actually win a couple of races before his final retirement to Merc team management then Merc will have transplanted a big chunk of the MS legend away from Ferrari and home to Merc.

That might be worth a lot more in the years to come than having 2 young talents who are not going to win a WC because the car is not there
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  1. None of the Schumacher legend will ever go to Mercedes. The great Schumacher is the man in a red car winning 5 World Titles on the spin.
  2. Legends, opinions and nostalgia are worth squat. Its a result business.
  3. If Schumacher were looking likely to win a couple of races then you may have a point, but he hasn't qualified higher than 5th or finished higher than 4th in the last 18 months
There is no sense in Michael Schumacher being in that Mercedes. Schumacher's always going to be remembered as a 7 time world champion and that happened for Benetton and (more particularly) Ferrari. As for marketing, anyone winning a race for Mercedes will bring greater revenue than Schumacher finishing 4th.
 
teabagyokel said:
...anyone winning a race for Mercedes will bring greater revenue than Schumacher finishing 4th.
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I mainly agree with your points in the previous post. The troubling thing is that Schumacher isn't consistently finishing 4th or 5th or even 6th. I have suggested in the past (in both 606 and here) that Kubica not being on the grid would normally have boosted Schumacher the most as the exceptional Pole was the logical driver (other than the 6 from the Top 3 teams) to take positions off him. Well, it doesn't seem to have helped much.

Before his titles, he was actually doing that. Senna, Prost, Mansell and the like were leading the way mostly - and Schumacher finishing just behind them in, say, 4th (on average) was a telling sign.

It ain't happening and I think Mercedes would be better served spending that money elsewhere.
 
teabagyokel said:
  1. None of the Schumacher legend will ever go to Mercedes. The great Schumacher is the man in a red car winning 5 World Titles on the spin.
  2. Legends, opinions and nostalgia are worth squat. Its a result business.
  3. If Schumacher were looking likely to win a couple of races then you may have a point, but he hasn't qualified higher than 5th or finished higher than 4th in the last 18 months
There is no sense in Michael Schumacher being in that Mercedes. Schumacher's always going to be remembered as a 7 time world champion and that happened for Benetton and (more particularly) Ferrari. As for marketing, anyone winning a race for Mercedes will bring greater revenue than Schumacher finishing 4th.
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I have my own view on your points 1, 2 and 3

Point 1. MS is German, Merc are a massive German manufacturer, to have the 7 x WC MS as a figure head and member of their F1 management effort (as he will undoubtedly become) is to gain F1 kudos by association, if he wins one or two races, perfect
He is a very popular German hero, how many hausfraus buying Merc cars are going to think, 'oh he didnt win a WC for Merc' Nope he is MS the 7xWC who is now retired and adds the F1 aura to the Merc saloon. Apart from that Merc want to sell supercars to take on Ferrari and McLaren. Ferraris only advertising budget is the F1 team.

Point 2. This brand new Merc F1 team, MS is not there forever. Merc want to regain former glories with young German drivers. MS will do for them what he did for Ferrari until Monte let him slip. Merc are there to sell (super) cars. Selling cars means more than F1 results (lets be brutally honest, look at Ferrari for almost 20 years before MS)

Point3. He has visibly improved. He was unlucky not to have a podium recently. Again he is not at Merc to win the WC 3 years in a row. Merc are back for the foreseeable future and to kick start things MS and his salary are a drop in the ocean compared to the income from the SLS cars they are going to churn out.

Having said all that, yes it would have been much better if MS (and Brawn) had delivered what their financial compensations suggested. However I doubt very much Merc or Norberg in F1 dept are worried about money.

RayInTorontoCanada said:
It ain't happening and I think Mercedes would be better served spending that money elsewhere.
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Respectfully Ray, see the point about Mercs money and possible longer term aims
 
As you know, I like my graphs. Here is Schumacher's qualifying positions vs Rosberg's since the start of 2010:

CTA.jpg


There is no sign of improvement of that red line, is there? Its dipped above the yellow line occasionally, but, in general he's qualified a similar number of positions behind Rosberg across these 18 months.

In fact, Schumi's worst comparison in quali came in the first quarter of this year.

By the way, he outqualified Rosberg this year at Monaco.

I struggle to see your trend for improvement.

F1 gains kudos by Schumacher's association? In Germany? I'm sure there is no-one else promoting F1 in Germany...

_53821603_vettel_reuters_226.jpg
 
Mr. Yokel

I am not saying MS is going to win the WC anytime soon. Or even that he can beat Rosberg normally.

Merc are gaining instant F1 kudos, through their association with a 7x German WC, it is better for the marketing men if MS drives for Merc instead of go straight into management

Seb 'finger' Vettel is not a Merc driver now is he? You think Sebs success with Red Bull will help Merc sell cars?

That graph does look as if there is no improvement, but stats dont tell the full story

The perception is now that MS' return has moved from complete disaster to just a return, a podium (he has been close) or a win (never know) would probably have Mercs marketing department tearing up their Cvs

Merc are in it for same reasons as Ferrari, to sell cars
 

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