Mark Webber

I'm a little puzzled as to why Webber doesn't have a page in the teams and drivers section, as Webber is a pivotal figure in the story upfront. There are questions that need to be asked. Why can Vettel win, and Webber struggle to get on the podium fighting Ferraris and McLarens? Why is the man that was noted as a good qualifier unable to get near Vettel? Did the leg break in late 2008 do him serious performance damage? and What should Webber do in the near future?

Mark Webber. Over to you...

 

[Kewee]

F1 drivers past and present love it as do I. I get a little tired of tracks that allow drivers to make huge mistakes without paying a price. I also enjoy the sports history and can't imagine a season without Monaco. I'f you find it a borefest I have an ideal solution for you. Don't watch.

 

[Bushi]

True that there are to many run of areas on most tracks. For me to not watch is kinda difficult if you follow the sport and want to know what happens. Sometimes those boring GP's can become exciting, but unfortunately that happens rarely.

 

[teabagyokel]

Interestingly, he has never won a Championship title apart from in Karting.

 

[Il_leone]

teabagyokel

The same thing could be said about Nigel Mansell and Damon Hill - no junior titles and critics thought people like Chapman and Patrick Head did not know what they were talking about when they said these guys had potential to be world champion

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I remember Webber blew the GT championship for Bernd Schneider in 1997 he made a mistake in the race costing the lead which allowed the sister Mercedes of Zonta and Klaus Ludwig steal the championship

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He lost out the F3000 championship to Justin Wilson who was far more steady and consistent than him

 

[Mephistopheles]

I rate Webber on the level of Button though. I'm fully convinced that Webber too could have won the '09 championship in the Brawn; Jenson's year then is actually pretty similair to what Webber often does. Button is probably slightly better on average race pace (ultimate race pace they are pretty equal), but Webber much faster in qualifying. He just happens to be unlucky to be teamed with Vettel.

There are so many holes in this statement I won't even bother to point them out as they are glaringly obvious....

 

[Il_leone]

If there is one problem with Mark Webber I see is he does not know when he fight his battles...he fights for every road and corner of the track and usually ends up putting himself in worse positions

He does not know when to accept it or play the percentages game

Comparing Webber to Button... I'd say Webber would be quicker over a lap but Button would beat him over a season simply because he is the better racer and seems to have better consistent race pace


Is he the most unluckiest man in F1 ... it always seems when he is a roll he gets the worst of the team calls and reliability issues
like he in 2009 when he was the leading Red Bull driver until the last few races

 

[mnmracer]

There are so many holes in this statement I won't even bother to point them out as they are glaringly obvious....

Well, that settles that then, doesn't it? Can't argue with that... non-argument.

 

[mnmracer]

mnmracer......I've been singing Webbers praise's with a few postings on this thread but I'm not so sure I can rate him above or equal to Button. I know many refer to Buttons car advantage in his championship year but that really only helped him in the first half of the season. He folded under pressure during the second half of the season but gathered himself in Brazil. His drive there from 14th on the grid to 5th was what was needed to capture the title and he drove it like a true champion. Probably a better measure of his talent is how he measured up against Hamilton in his first year at McLaren. What lacked in outright speed he more than made up for in mental toughness which showed in their compared results at the end of the season. He was also only 2 points away from Lewis at the end of 2012. They both had their share of bad luck and misfortune but on average Button looked pretty good against Hamilton. I'm not sure Webber could have achieved the same.

My assessment of Webber/Button is not based on '09, but on both their careers. Both have shown sign of brilliance early on (was really impressed with both their first races), both have also shown slumps that made me doubt, and both have stood strong against a great team-mate.

 

[Lewywo4]

F1 drivers past and present love it as do I

I'f you find it a borefest I have an ideal solution for you. Don't watch.

Don't watch seems like a reasonable suggestion.....I also love it, and never tire of watching those cars flying through the swimming pool area.

 

[Il_leone]

I still think Button 9 times out 10 will beat Webber because Mark inexplicably somewhere will have a race with an incident

When it comes to wheel to wheel Button usually can make clean passes whereas Webber if they work they are very bold and brave or they make him look silly as he either loses out or crashes with the car next to him like in Abu Dhabi

2009 Brawn...I think Barrichello would have ran Webber closer

I dont think Webber has it to be world champion because he always seems to find ways to lose it or some inexplicable bad luck befalls him

 

[Mephistopheles]

My thoughts exactly Il_leone

The only reason the comparison was made in the first place was to big up Vettel and by doing so belittling Hamilton as a consequence.....

After all there is only one driver on the grid who deserves any praise isn't there.. according to a certain poster....

No names no pack drill....

 

[mnmracer]

Setting aside your evasive need to find an agenda in everything, Button's 2009 was a trademark Webber-season: strong start, falling back towards the end. That had nothing to do with Red Bull/McLaren alone, as Barichello was a clearly stronger challenger in the second half. Had Vettel not been a 22-year old that had yet to learn to keep his head straight, Button would not have won 2009, simple as that. And there's no shame in losing to Vettel, Hamilton or Alonso, but Button's 09 was very similar to Webber's '10, with the difference being strong competition in Alonso and Vettel.

 

[Bill Boddy]

In 2009 the Brawn team did not have the money to progress their car as much as the other teams did, hence Button was getting much lower finishing places. In terms of points if you go from Hungary being the first race of the second half the points were in Barrichello's favour, 33 to 27, but Button was put out at Spa due to being run into. There was also the Italian GP where Button was sitting on Barrichello's back wheel for a large part of the race making no attempt to overtake to avoid problems.

What also went against Button was the change in the brakes from progressive, which Button preferred, to instantaneous, preferred by Barrichello.

In reality there was very little difference between the drivers in the second half of the season, it was the car which put them further down the field.

 

[FB]

Now don't go getting all rational Bill Boddy, not on an internet forum anyway.

 

[Bill Boddy]

 

[mnmracer]

Isn't that exactly what I'm saying? He went from beating Barichello on pace to being kind of equal. That's (sort of) Webber's average season in a nutshell.

 

[Slyboogy]

What also went against Button was the change in the brakes from progressive, which Button preferred, to instantaneous, preferred by Barrichello.

You can easily turn that around and say that went against Barrichello early on in the season.

And wasn't it just Barrichello who changed his brakes, I'm pretty sure it was, stated in the F1 Racing mag.

 

[Il_leone]

Webber 2010 could have and might have been world champion

- Red Bull did not back him despite being the championship leader at the time before his off in Korea

he also inherited some serious luck

-he was involved in two incidents

Vettel at Turkey and Hamilton at SIngapore and manages to get a podium in both races simply because of the pace of the Red Bull

The last race - the team messed up for him over pit strategy and qualifying.

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Vettel in my opinion was extremely lucky to be 2010 champ given the number of amateurish errors he was doing and a few attempts at wall squeezing other drivers - he always ended up looking second best
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2009 Vettel and Red Bull could have been champions but Seb kept fluffing up the start and made some stupid errors which meant he was too far back to close on Button when Red Bull was undoubtedly the best car from round 8 onwards

 

[teabagyokel]

- Red Bull did not back him despite being the championship leader at the time before his off in Korea

If he hadn't made that error then he'd have been 39 points clear of Vettel with two races remaining. I don't think Red Bull could have not backed him in that situation. Sorry, he had a chance and he blew it.

 

[Il_leone]

teabagyokel

Brazil race Red Bull are 1 -2 ... Webber with the 7pts extra would have only been 1 pt behind Alonso going into the last race

DO you think Red Bull would do the same if the roles were reversed then?