Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

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Gary Anderson said:
Button still has a mathematical chance of the championship but the mountain is pretty high and I think he is big enough and broad-shouldered enough to give up his hopes for Hamilton.
Button sees the big picture and will realise it's too far away from him, but his team-mate still has a chance. Whether he will be fast enough to help Hamilton remains to be seen.
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It's seems to be general consensus that Jenson needs to play a supporting role for the rest of the season and it's also very sensible. Both Martin Whitmarsh and Gary Anderson seem to have faith that he is mature enough to do this off of his own back. Anderson, however, wonders whether he will be quick enough against Lewis' main rivals to make a difference.
Having the support of your team-mate will be a boost but I feel that Lewis will be more reliant on bad luck from his opponents. I think we can expect some of that luck to be engineered through some odd strategies for Jenson to hold Fernando and Seb back. Lewis just needs to carry on doing what he is doing and keep his fingers crossed that everything that is out of his immediate control falls into place.

It's my opinion that, for the remainder of the season, there is no "Jenson vs Lewis". It will be a Jenson aiding Lewis situation.
 
racecub said:
Its simple, Lewis had more track incidents last year . Im not rubbishing Jenson, just saying he isnt in Lewis' league, Alonso is.
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So you still won't accept the fact that Jenson was better than Lewis last season? Isn't that a little silly? I'm not going to argue that Lewis has been better than Jenson this season. Come on. You know you want to admitt it. You'd feel much better if you did ;)

ExtremeNinja said:
It's seems to be general consensus that Jenson needs to play a supporting role for the rest of the season and it's also very sensible. Both Martin Whitmarsh and Gary Anderson seem to have faith that he is mature enough to do this off of his own back. Anderson, however, wonders whether he will be quick enough against Lewis' main rivals to make a difference.
Having the support of your team-mate will be a boost but I feel that Lewis will be more reliant on bad luck from his opponents. I think we can expect some of that luck to be engineered through some odd strategies for Jenson to hold Fernando and Seb back. Lewis just needs to carry on doing what he is doing and keep his fingers crossed that everything that is out of his immediate control falls into place.

It's my opinion that, for the remainder of the season, there is no "Jenson vs Lewis". It will be a Jenson aiding Lewis situation.
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Agree its time for Jenson to support Lewis if Mclaren want the title but would argue that Jenson has been doing an alright job of that as it is. In Spa when Lewis went out he won the race making sure none of his rivals acheived the maximum points. In Monza but for a mechanical failure Button would have come second behind Lewis again taking points from Hamilton's rivals and in Singapore just gone whilst he was unable to beat Vettel he was in front of Alonso again making sure the gap didn't grow by more after Lewis went out. He's been doing a far better job than his rivals team-mates thats for certain so not sure where you've got the not 'quick enough' thing from - other than beating Vettel I'm not sure how he can have been a better support driver

He's also proper quick round Japan and I think if Mclaren are going to score a 1-2 anywhere it'll be there.
 
RasputinLives

Indeed, it has worked out that, for the most part, Jenson's performances this year have benefitted Lewis. However, that's a different point. In making a decision to support Lewis, Jenson would no longer be racing for himself. The points you make are circumstantial as in those cases Jenson was out to achieve the best result he could for himself. Swinging over to support Lewis would mean a change in mentality and approach whereby Lewis' results and the results of his rivals would have to be more important than his own. This could potentially mean a few sacrifices on Jenson's behalf.
 
in 2010, Lewis had a gearbox failure

In 2011, Lewis had a puncture

Better reliability and a weekend free from incident and a 1-2 is definitely on the cards. If they are 1-2 and the race is going Jenson's way then I still expect Lewis to take the top-step, whether he is outraced by Jenson or otherwise.
 
RasputinLives said:
So you still won't accept the fact that Jenson was better than Lewis last season? Isn't that a little silly? I'm not going to argue that Lewis has been better than Jenson this season. Come on. You know you want to admitt it. You'd feel much better if you did ;)
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"better than Lewis", well if you define 'better', by scoring more points, then I must agree with you. But without Lewis' on track incidents he would have scored more...starting with the one when Jenson took him out. It was downhill from then on really. But I still say Lewis was the faster driver and the most likely to finish ahead baring incidents.What I will admit is that Jenson was closer to Lewis last year in terms of speed. He liked the planted rear that the blown diffusre gave him. Without that the gap this year has widened.
 
ExtremeNinja said:
RasputinLives

Indeed, it has worked out that, for the most part, Jenson's performances this year have benefitted Lewis. However, that's a different point. In making a decision to support Lewis, Jenson would no longer be racing for himself. The points you make are circumstantial as in those cases Jenson was out to achieve the best result he could for himself. Swinging over to support Lewis would mean a change in mentality and approach whereby Lewis' results and the results of his rivals would have to be more important than his own. This could potentially mean a few sacrifices on Jenson's behalf.
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I do see what you're saying Ninja but I think you're looking at things the wrong way. I don't think Mclaren will ever use Jenson as some sort of blocking device nor should they. Jenson's job as a supporting driver is to finish ahead of Lewis's rivals which as he's been aiming to do that all season anyway won't require too much of a head adjustment - the only adjustment will be that he has to let Lewis through if he finds himself in front of him which I fully expect him to do in the most obvious way he can whilst shouting about it on the radio so the whole world knows he is like any good competitive driver should ;)

and please don't use Hamilton's puncture as an excuse for Japan 2011 as its infuriating. Jenson was a cut above everyone on race day even sticking it to Vettel who had by far the superior car. I'm not taking anything from Lewis when I say Jenson was absolutely on it that day and always seems to run ok at Susuka.

Circumstantial or not you can't argue that Lewis Hamilton has had a great supporting driver in that he has had a team-mate who has regually taken points from his rivals.
 
RasputinLives

I don't think he would be ordered to do anything that is against his racing desires. McLaren have been quite candid about that. However, it has been reported that there has been a conversation, instigated by Jenson, about how he might be able to help with Lewis' campaign. If Jenson offers himself to the cause, then of course they will use him to help Lewis, providing it is not to the detriment of thier parallel WCC campaign. That includes sacrificing Jenson's race for the good of Lewis' and the detriment of his rivals.

I think you are getting excited about me making excuses for Lewis. I haven't made any. I don't believe for a minute that Lewis was going to win in Suzuka last year. Jenson was the better man on the day. Pease don't lump me in with all the Hamilton fanatics.

Support is never circumstantial and so you can't say that Jenson has been a good supporting driver. He has been a worthy team-mate but in no way has he been supporting Lewis. My point about circumstance still stands.
 
Josh 2007 Lewis and Alonso were pretty equal in terms of driving. I dont think Jenson and Lewis equal.But thats just my opinion, I think Lewis is better and he's the one Id want in my team if I ran one....even though Jenson scored more points in 2011.
 
Ok. I see why you'd want Lewis in your team over Jenson and I see you think that Lewis is better than Jenson. But surely you have to see that during the course of 2011 Jenson was the better F1 driver than Lewis. Lets consider that F1 is a results business,
 
Button scored more points in a season when the WDC wasnt up for grabs really. If I was chosing, even on the basis of the 2011 results, one of those drivers for my team the following year, Id choose Lewis. Points alone dont tell the whole story. If Lewis hadnt had crashes he'd have finnished ahead. But yes he had crashes and he finished lower.
 
F1 is all about points surely? Whatever the reason for not scoring, I always thought it was a competitive sport and that was what mattered whether it be WCC or WDC.

Have I been misinformed for over forty years?
 
once again if my auntie had balls she's be my uncle - and now we're grading performances per season on how winnable the title is? You're an odd one Racecub. Seriously its quite fun to admit your wrong sometimes ya know - or that the driver you love isn't always the best.

I said Jenson and Lewis would be close on performance this season. I was wrong. Here I'll say it:

LEWIS HAMILTON HAS BEEN MUCH BETTER THAN JENSON BUTTON THIS SEASON!

see that felt good. Join us and admit Lewis got out performed in 2011. You feel much better for it ;)
 
There is a diference between driving better and being a better driver. It is very much my opinion that Jenson drove better than Lewis last year but also that Lewis is the better driver. Square that!

:whistle:
 
It's never been about the better driver in any particular season though - all sorts of other features come into play.
 
Interestingly, it is easy to admit you're wrong if you make unequivocal posts like this:

RasputinLives said:
Romain Grosjean will win a Grand Prix in 2012
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racecub - If Hamilton had a load of crashes in 2011, whose fault was that?

And to pre-empt your answer, Button, in the same car, was seldom on the same tarmac as Massa because he was three or four positions higher up the road than Hamilton.

In the real world, however, the answer is Button 270-227 Hamilton. The fact the WDC wasn't up for grabs is completely and utterly irrelevant to this discussion.

And, by your logic, isn't that Maldonado bloody fantastic!?
 
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