This whole thing is getting tiresome.
They're both bloody brilliant! Why can't we leave it there?
They're both bloody brilliant! Why can't we leave it there?
Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton
- Thread starter Brogan
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johnnoble1990
Guest
I'm equally interested in seeing them both in the wet. Lewis often looks quicker in the wet than Jenson, though Jenson's long game has paid off in recent times. It'd be interesting to see whether Jenson really is better in the wet than Lewis, or whether Lewis is better when he keeps it on the track.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
the cars were set up differently, Lewis' was not as fast as Jensons, Setup can be improved, Lewis will get better over time at getting his side of the garage to setup his car to his best advantage
The pole times flatter Button
I agree with the cut and thrust of both of your arguments
racecub
Champion Elect
Because the enginers have said so. The quote's on here somewhere-'If theres a difference of opinion on FRiday we invariably go woth Jenson because he needs the car just -so but Lewis can drive around problems
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johnnoble1990
Guest
I don't know why my fellow Lewis fans feel the need to make excuses for him. We haven't seen the best of Lewis over the last 12 months and Jenson is rightly beating him. Doesn't mean it is going to last forever though, particularly if this is Lewis off-form and Jenson at the peak of his potential. Fortunately for Lewis, he hasn't lost his quali pace, which will provide damage limitations till he gets back to his unbeatable best.
Please show reference
its hard to assume that a black parent who sent his son to a local comp is comparable to a white middle class ex racing driver parent, for one thing we all know that the establishment helps its own more than outsiders, and this is the same in any business
nope, that argument, although finely articulated, doesn't stand up in the real world
Are you suggesting that an IT contractering gets paid less because of the colour of his skin? I'm not sure what Anthony Hamilton's race has to do with how much he earns. Lewis didn't grow up in 1950's America down the road from Boo Radley he grew up in late 1980's british suburbs. We have employment laws in place to stop this sort of thing that have been in place for some time. I know because I work for a department that enforces them. On top of which in the cut throat world of the IT industry let me tell you business don't care if you're from Mars as long as you get them the best equiptment at the cheapest quoted price.
As for Lewis going to the local comp. Would this be the catholic aided John Henry Newman School which has been one of Britiain's top schools since 1985, had an outstanding Ofsted report in 2006 and was awarded Academy status in 2012? The same John Henry Newman School with a link to Oxford University?
Now I went to the local comp but I wouldn't dare describe myself as working class.
Sometimes you need to peel the onion Cook. Just peel that onion.
Indeed.
But at least it's confined to one thread instead of every other thread being hijacked by the same arguments.
Which, if read properly, is a compliment to Lewis, basically saying he's a better driver. I fail to see how McLaren are hamstringing Hamilton whilst at the same time telling the world he's the more capable driver. You can't have it both ways i'm afraid.
My personal point of view - Hamilton has his side of the garage, it's up to him to make the best of it. It's up to him to tell them that he needs the car 'just-so' for him. That includes setting up the car to his own liking etc perhaps even discussing with his engineer that he may have to pit earlier than McLaren themselves have set up strategy for. If Hamilton feels McLaren are backing Jenson more than him then it's up to him to be more assertive both in terms of driving and in terms of strategy. I personally don't actually see any evidence for this favouritism btw, nor do I think Hamilton feels this way - the way I see it is I don't believe McLaren favoured Hamilton over Alonso in '07 so it would be a bit hypocritical to start bleating on about Button being favoured, all because because Martin Whitmarsh happens to smile and compliment Button when he does well, in exactly the same way he smiles and compliments Hamilton in fact.
Some of the stuff on this thread is completely rubbish.
I'm a Hamilton fan myself (not a Lewis fan because I'm not on first name basis with him) and I can clearly see that he is being outperformed by Button fair and square. (In my opinion) I put this down to both regulation change (Pirelli rubber) and just a general dip in performance. Button isn't a world champion for no reason. I just don't know why some of Hamilton's fans constantly feel the need to make excuses for him when he doesn't perform perfectly.
I'm a Hamilton fan myself (not a Lewis fan because I'm not on first name basis with him) and I can clearly see that he is being outperformed by Button fair and square. (In my opinion) I put this down to both regulation change (Pirelli rubber) and just a general dip in performance. Button isn't a world champion for no reason. I just don't know why some of Hamilton's fans constantly feel the need to make excuses for him when he doesn't perform perfectly.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
I am not saying Hamilton senior spent his days running from the klan, or was paid less than an equivalent white person
I am just saying Button senior, being an ex racing driver and owning a karting business will have found it many times easier to support his sons karting than an outsider who had to work 3 jobs at once and had to buy his son karts out of his earnings
If my old man had owned a kart shop I suspect I would have had lots more opportunity to practice race and develop than my buddy whos old man was a postman buying second hand soapboxes with land mower engines
You can't surely be arguing a out that
It was stated that Jenson's carting records was not equaled by Lewis due to Mr Hamilton senior not being able to afford as good equiptment for Lewis and I was stating this is a nonsense that finacially they were probably on a par. Yes Jenson had the advanatge of being around the Karts but who do you think earns more a 70's rallycross driver who ended up running a cart shop or an IT manager with his own company taking on multiple business contracts?
They both had middle class upbringings and both had hard working fathers who supported their talent and their careers so I'm just trying to end the myth that one crawled his way up from the gutter whilst the other just turned up after spending his childhood living in a house made of gold.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
So you can have an opinion, but others that you don't agree with are completely rubbish?
Lets not turn this into another Hamilton debacle?
its simple, people are interested in 2 top British drivers, sports encourages competition, in Sports only 1 competitor can win. F1 is a lot less partisan wrt its supporters when it comes to teams or drivers than say football. However many follow sports for this aspect, they like to pick a winner and either bet or support him. This is ofcourse the definition of subjectivity as one always thinks ones wife is the prettiest
so far all that happens is that new info or articles come out, someone posts it and then F1 fans respond to the new development
If Hamilton somehow galvanises the most fervent or loyal and subjective fans, so what, either dont get involved with them or ignore them
Ofcourse we also have to ask why Hamilton has more vocal fans than any other, could it be that fans of sports tend to rise to support those with talent who are perceived as unfairly treated, or underdogs with talent.
This aspect has being part of sports for a long time. For me a sportsman battling the odds is a lot more interesting than pandering to the status quo
So now we're examining both drivers' respective childhoods in order to find some solace as to why Button was faster last week end? You could let other people know, hardly a fair argument if we haven't revised.....
Oh well, could be worse. It could be a 'Hamilton vs Alonso' thread.
Oh well, could be worse. It could be a 'Hamilton vs Alonso' thread.
This already is a Hamilton debacle.
As for other's opinions, they have can them fine but it's when they claim to quote people to reinforce their point with no actual person or website to quote from that it becomes quite obvious that clearly they are partial to one opinion and nothing anyone can say is going to change that.
This thread has been created specifically for the group of people who want to discuss/argue about Button vs Hamilton, ad-infinitum if it pleases them.
Keeping it all in one thread stops other threads being derailed, which has already started happening and there has only been one race so far this season.
For anyone else who's not interested, it's quite simple, don't click on the thread.
I only wish I didn't have to keep doing so
Keeping it all in one thread stops other threads being derailed, which has already started happening and there has only been one race so far this season.
For anyone else who's not interested, it's quite simple, don't click on the thread.
I only wish I didn't have to keep doing so
I kind of wish I'd stop clicking on it but I do. I think they're both bloody awesome drivers and will always give praise where praise is due just some the tireless defence and twisting of facts to defend or attack either driver just irks me!
I feel like one day I'm going to come on Clip The Apex to find it not working anymore after all the moderaters have been driven mad and have no choice but to drop to my knees, bang my hand in the sand and scream "you blew it up! you maniacs! You actually did it! Dam you all! Dam you all to hell!" - and the only thing left functioning on the wholesite will be Jos silly weather thread.
Oh and boo to my picture of a cat being deleted
I feel like one day I'm going to come on Clip The Apex to find it not working anymore after all the moderaters have been driven mad and have no choice but to drop to my knees, bang my hand in the sand and scream "you blew it up! you maniacs! You actually did it! Dam you all! Dam you all to hell!" - and the only thing left functioning on the wholesite will be Jos silly weather thread.
Oh and boo to my picture of a cat being deleted
liloyster
Rookie
Hmm im not so sure, I feel Jenson had the pace over Lewis in all of those races, regardless of the incidents.
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