If only Harry Hill actually did that one!
Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton
- Thread starter Brogan
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Cookinflatsix
Banned
what exactly do you mean by Hamilton debacle? Did Hamilton cause a debacle here?
I suspect you refer to the quote that McLaren engineers set up the cars, and go with Button on Friday? I don't think a link is possible because it was in the subscription part of Autosport, however it was read by many. Here is the initial post by racecub on this
In a well written article in Autosport by Mark Hughes drivers skills are analysed, how they react to g-force, rotation and yaw. Apparantly its felt between the coccyx and the third vetebra.Ceccarelli(an expert in the field) says theres no where near enough study been done on this to optimise driver's performances.Lots in the article. Basically its why Vettel was so good at quali. its why hamilton is sensational around Monacco, Senna Donnington 83, Hamilton Silverstone08 Vettel Monza 08 and the reverse..the silky smooth driver ...Button China '10 Lots more,its a long article. Apparantly dealling with oversteer in the zones that induce it will give a less understeery car elsewhere and therefore more total grip over the lap. the great drivers Senna , Schumacher, Mansell (I'd add Vettel and Hamilton) all had the ability. BUT when it comes to setting up the McLaren i read this."Whenever their is a divergence of opinion on Friday, the team invariably follow Button's preference, probably secure in the knowledge that hamilton will be able to drive well regardless of the car's traits, whereas Button loses more of his performance if the car is not exactly as he needs it. Whoah!!!How to reward your most skillfull driver, give him a car that doesnt play to his skills in favour of a less versatile driver!!!
riskitall
Points Scorer
i agree button beat lewis fair and square in aus,but i do believe the team are more on buttons side.
yeah whitmarsh may say nice things about lewis,but his body language tells a different story.
whitmarsh always looks genuinely happy when button does well,but not when lewis does well.
also im sure button has been allowed to pit before lewis in the past even when lewis was the lead driver.
i dont remember it ever happening the other way tho.and the timing of some of hamiltons pitstops have to be questioned.he is often pitted at the wrong times.
now when it comes to tyres i still dont think they are a problem for lewis.last season for example lewis was the only one challenging vettel up until monaco,and then things went pear shaped for him from quali onwards.but it was because of crashing,not tyres.
in canada for example he was super quick until the incident with button.he was about to overtake button for a second time,i dont need to tell you what happened after that,so i think the tyre thing is not that big of a deal.also its worth mentioning that lewis got mclarens last win of last season.and what happened in the final race wasnt his fault.
J
johnnoble1990
Guest
The horrible irony of this is that the main reason I like Lewis is for his race craft, but I think since the pirelli's came in this has become the prevailing opinion. I don't think it is as cut and dry as this though. I'd say on average, Lewis is faster on track too, but Jenson seems to win out at the moment with his more methodical approach.
ATL11
Pole Sitter
Okay to add to it.....
Dry - 1 lap Lewis, multiple laps Jenson
Wet - 1 lap ????? (not sure), multiple laps Jenson (easy)
What do you reckon, in the wet 1 lap shootout between Jenson & Lewis?
riskitall
Points Scorer
if theres one thing that annoys me about lewis,its the fact he keeps banging on about 1-2's all the time.
lewis dont worry about flippin 1-2's,just focus on winning races.be ruthless,and be strict with your team,coz lewis,jenson may seem like a nice guy,but you better believe he is ruthless,he knows how to manipulate ppl to do what he wants.
what he does is,he acts all nice to everyone,like theyre his best friend,making everyone like him,knowing full well that that will make them want him to succeed more than the next man.so lewis,you need to be ruthless too,but in your own way.
lewis dont worry about flippin 1-2's,just focus on winning races.be ruthless,and be strict with your team,coz lewis,jenson may seem like a nice guy,but you better believe he is ruthless,he knows how to manipulate ppl to do what he wants.
what he does is,he acts all nice to everyone,like theyre his best friend,making everyone like him,knowing full well that that will make them want him to succeed more than the next man.so lewis,you need to be ruthless too,but in your own way.
In the wet, I would say that if there isn't an element of strategy involved then Hamilton is the faster - take his pass on Button at Melbourne in 2010, and his leading (of the two) towards the start at Britain (from behind) and Hungary last year - in addition to Fuji in 2007 and the perfect wet race at Silverstone in 2008.
However, if the race becomes a "right tyre, right time" changeable conditions think-a-thon, then there is no doubt that Button is going to have the legs on Hamilton, as witnessed by his defeat of Hamilton in Hungary in 2011 and Australia and China in 2010, and not to mention Hamilton tyre-call brainfarts such as at Monza in 2008 to which Sebastian Vettel is infinitely endebted.
J
johnnoble1990
Guest
I reckon Lewis personally. He looked quicker than Jenson in Canada until they crashed. Lewis is no slouch in the rain either you know. Jenson obviously made some good decisions in early 2010 to win some wet races, then drove a blinder in Canada, but prior to that I would've said Lewis was better for certain. Everyone remembers British GP in 08.
ATL11
Pole Sitter
Okay to develop further I'll add to it.....
Full Dry - 1 lap Lewis, multiple laps Jenson
Full Wet - 1 lap Lewis, multiple laps Jenson (easy)
Changeable - 1 lap Jenson, multiple laps Jenson
Shoot me down? ....
J
johnnoble1990
Guest
Lewis has been undone by misfortune in quite a few wet races in recent times. I would not be surprised if we saw some rain this weekend, so maybe we will get to see more evidence.
Okay to develop further I'll add to it.....
Full Dry - 1 lap Lewis, multiple laps Jenson
Full Wet - 1 lap Lewis, multiple laps Jenson (easy)
Changeable - 1 lap Jenson, multiple laps Jenson
Shoot me down? ....
I would still say if you somehow got constant wet conditions Hamilton would be better over a whole race distance, of course thats unlikely.
He won the title in an inferior car that year largely because he was much better in wet conditions than Massa. I have no doubt that had he followed the prevailing strategy in quali that day he'd have won the race, so I do think it was a little disappointing that they tried to be too clever.
Lewywo4
Race Winner
F1, I agree with you that it was a sneaky move on Jenson's part, and you was also correct, because Lewis did say to the pitwall.................. " what the hell is going on. "
J
johnnoble1990
Guest
The Red Bull collision made it very easy to sweep that under the carpet. That was Lewis on top form though, to regain the place. We are not seeing the same Lewis right now, I think we can all admit that. That retake was ruthless. 
Bushi
Race Winner
Don't agree on that one. He was much better or the Mclaren was much better in wet conditions? Ferrari was awful in wet conditions during 08. Remember Massa his zillion time spin a silverstone.
O
OnTheLimit
Guest
Wowzer, not seen this before with radio transmission.
Either there was some sort of 'miscommunication' somewhere along the lines or Mclaren were pulling a fast one. I didn't hear pit crew telling Jenson to maintain pace
Very very suspicious and its kind of revealing. Beneath the smiles and lovey dovey stuff, theirs definitely a 'healthy' rivalry there.
Great driving from both mind, it was a pretty ruthless pass from Lewis to retake the lead as mentioned.
Two fathers.
Anthony Hamilton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Hamilton#Personal_life
"Supporting his son became problematic, which caused him to take redundancy from his position as an IT Manager and became a contractor. He was sometimes employed in up to three jobs at a time, while still managing to find enough time to attend all Hamilton's races. He later set up his own computer company as well as working as a full-time manager for Hamilton."
John Button.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Button_(racing_driver)
"run by his own VW-Audi dealership and tuning garage Autoconti of Trowbridge in Wiltshire."
Neither of them seems to have been either poor or splashing around in loads of money.
Anthony Hamilton would have been quite well paid as an IT manager. Since he took redundancy to enable him to go contracting it seems likely that he did it for more money, with up to three contracts at a time he was obviously not your average PC contractor just brought in to do your upgrades from Windows 95 to Windows XP. A more likely scenario is that he did consultancy work. You would need to ask him if you want to know more. One thing that he seems never to have been is a postman, no doubt someone will provide proof if he was.
John Button would hardly have made a fortune in Rallycross, described in the official website http://www.btrda.com/Rallycross/ as:
"Unofficially, Rallycross is the wildchild of motor sport. The offspring of a liaison between circuit racing and rallying. A place where it's kosher to use the kerbs and grass. Where sideways is good. And where fun is top of the agenda."
His dealership in deepest Wiltshire probably made him comfortably rather than well off, his car tuning business seems to have never filed accounts, it was set up in 1975 but is now dissolved. Had it been worth money I would have expected it to have been sold as a going concern.
So both Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button would seem to have come from a middle class background which could provide them with good quality go-karts to drive. Shame really, it would have been nice to discover that at least one of them came from cardboard city.
Anthony Hamilton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Hamilton#Personal_life
"Supporting his son became problematic, which caused him to take redundancy from his position as an IT Manager and became a contractor. He was sometimes employed in up to three jobs at a time, while still managing to find enough time to attend all Hamilton's races. He later set up his own computer company as well as working as a full-time manager for Hamilton."
John Button.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Button_(racing_driver)
"run by his own VW-Audi dealership and tuning garage Autoconti of Trowbridge in Wiltshire."
Neither of them seems to have been either poor or splashing around in loads of money.
Anthony Hamilton would have been quite well paid as an IT manager. Since he took redundancy to enable him to go contracting it seems likely that he did it for more money, with up to three contracts at a time he was obviously not your average PC contractor just brought in to do your upgrades from Windows 95 to Windows XP. A more likely scenario is that he did consultancy work. You would need to ask him if you want to know more. One thing that he seems never to have been is a postman, no doubt someone will provide proof if he was.
John Button would hardly have made a fortune in Rallycross, described in the official website http://www.btrda.com/Rallycross/ as:
"Unofficially, Rallycross is the wildchild of motor sport. The offspring of a liaison between circuit racing and rallying. A place where it's kosher to use the kerbs and grass. Where sideways is good. And where fun is top of the agenda."
His dealership in deepest Wiltshire probably made him comfortably rather than well off, his car tuning business seems to have never filed accounts, it was set up in 1975 but is now dissolved. Had it been worth money I would have expected it to have been sold as a going concern.
So both Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button would seem to have come from a middle class background which could provide them with good quality go-karts to drive. Shame really, it would have been nice to discover that at least one of them came from cardboard city.
Both he personally and McLaren generally were better in wet conditions than Massa and Ferrari respectively in 2008; Raikkonen finished a lap clear of Massa in Silverstone.
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