Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[F1ang-o]

One interesting point about Turkey 2010 after the save fuel row is the way they both handled the situation...Lewis obviously a bit mad having been caught napping about thinking the race was his aggressively repassed Button and showed his displeasure post race

Lewis wasn't napping...he was on the team radio.....this sleep talking guy was being told that both cars had to conserve fuel, Lewis told his engineer that Button was getting closer.....he was told that both cars the same.....& that JB would not overtake.
But he did, & LH didn't wait around to be told that they needed to conserve fuel, so he could not take the place back, he got right in there.
IMHO a sneaky move by JB.
After the race LH said nothing about it, he looked bemused...... or WTF is going on.
He actually said to his engineer on the radio...what the hell is going on....(I think)

Button having told to save fuel a few laps before was not expecting Hamilton to be slow and decided to seize his chance but afterwards got the message save fuel and decided to deal internally behind the garage and mentioning "TEAM ORDERS" post race.

JB said one thing after the race...& changed his story at the next race.

They are both competitive animals... Lewis as we all know never likes to be told not race before.

Lewis likes to race....level playing field, Queensberry rules...that's his adrenalne buzz
As Boris Becker said "It's not the winning, it's the way you play the game.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Well I'm not sure that's the reason he was uncompetitive in relation to Button apart from into turn one. The comments are in relation to a clutch issue at the start inability to switch his tyres on and the safety car. He needs to work on his tyres then.

Yes and once he fixes his clutch issue and sets up the car with better knowledge and experience wrt getting tyres working quicker we should see a more equal pace from both cars then it will be down to the driver

I still feel that blistering pace is the best asset for a racing driver, everything else can be acquired

 

[Mephistopheles]

The majority of Michael Schumacher's wins have come about from tactics and when you talk about blistering pace to be honest I can't see much difference between Lewis and Button in race pace, in fact Jenson scored more fastest race laps than Lewis last year, in qualifying yes Lewis has the edge but not in race pace, in which case if you combine pace with tactics there will only be one winner, for most of the time..

PS.

Even the qualifying difference between the two is becoming smaller and smaller..

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Hmmm

The faster driver qualifies, then controls the race from the front

Clutch issues shouldn't happen every race

Faster racing driver wins most times

(No further comment on this from me)

 

[Mephistopheles]

That's as may be but you are making far too much out of the clutch issue it was a small problem it could happen to anyone and didn't cost Lewis the race.

Lewis out qualified Jenson by 1½ tenths of a second to put this into context, it takes a human being 3-4 tenths of a second to blink his/her eyes, this means the difference between Jenson and Lewis was less than half a blink.

I think when people see the timing screens they don't really comprehend how close things are...

 

[racecub]

Thats how it is in F1 racing, tenths or even hundredths, thats how things are won and lost.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Agreed but the point is to say someone has blistering pace and the other is as slow as my granny is a bit of a nonsense..

In which case it is better to be error free than just to have a tenth in your pocket..

 

[racecub]

Jensons clearly not slow as granny ...just not usually as fast as Lewis.

The reason he's closer than one would expect.... is having more input into the car design, having his preferences on Friday set-up, go slow tyres and fuel heavy cars. It all plays right into his hands. Lucky boy.

 

[P1]

My sense is that Button's success has inadvertently been manufactured by Pirelli.

Tire wear was generally not an issue in the Bridgestone days. Pirelli decided it might be fun to spice things up with tires that fall apart easily. Kind of the way Italian car manufacturers design their cars that way too.

Lewis has been a guy who is brilliantly fast because he can control a car beyond the edge of stability. Take a corner too fast and pull it off with quick reflexes and corrections. This is what gives him the qualifying edge, however it also means his tires take more of a beating.

The Pirelli's don't reward the guy whose talents are quick reflexes and the ability to control a car beyond the edge of stability. They reward the smooth driver who is easy on the tires. That's Button.

Personally I think it is a shame. I don't think tires should ever decide races.

 

[racecub]

My thoughts absolutely Batman!!! Something's been lost for manufactured spectacle.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

this means the difference between Jenson and Lewis was less than half a blink.

I think when people see the timing screens they don't really comprehend how close things are...

Obviously not

 

[RickD]

My sense is that Button's success has inadvertently been manufactured by Pirelli.

Tire wear was generally not an issue in the Bridgestone days. Pirelli decided it might be fun to spice things up with tires that fall apart easily. Kind of the way Italian car manufacturers design their cars that way too.

Lewis has been a guy who is brilliantly fast because he can control a car beyond the edge of stability. Take a corner too fast and pull it off with quick reflexes and corrections. This is what gives him the qualifying edge, however it also means his tires take more of a beating.

The Pirelli's don't reward the guy whose talents are quick reflexes and the ability to control a car beyond the edge of stability. They reward the smooth driver who is easy on the tires. That's Button.

Personally I think it is a shame. I don't think tires should ever decide races.

1. It wasn't Pirelli, it was the FIA who wanted tyres that didn't last the whole race
2. Jenson has always been fast in races (not so much in qualifying), If you watch any of his races that weren't in that god-awful earth pile or that Renault, then you would be able to see this.
3. There is not that much difference in tyre wear between the two, but don't let that fact get in the way of a bad argument.
4. Race-craft - Ever heard of it?

I am sick and tired of people saying that Jenson is slow. He has always been sooo slow that Lewis couldn't beat his records back in Karting even and so slow that Lewis looked up to him and tried to emulate him in his early career.

 

[racecub]

Here are two very telling statements about the stae of play at McLaren. The first one from Lewis hamilton On the likelihood of resigning for McLaren now that the car is fast

-"My decision will be based on more than just the car. When you make a decision on your future it's the whole package."

And the second an observation By David Coulthard

"Of course, we only know what Mclaren tell us. There might be another story going on within the team that we dont now about that explains the pace gap between the two. Look at Lewis' face on the podium and in interviews; he wasnt happy to finnish third, but was that because he lost second in the stops, or becuse Jenson beat him? we just dont know"

Hmmmmmmmmm

 

[Andyoak]

Jensons clearly not slow as granny ...just not usually as fast as Lewis.

The reason he's closer than one would expect.... is having more input into the car design, having his preferences on Friday set-up, go slow tyres and fuel heavy cars. It all plays right into his hands. Lucky boy.

Why do you think Lewis hasn't had the same opportunity to influence car design, set-up, etc.?
He's been there longer than Jenson.
Could it be he hasn't bothered or isn't as good?

 

[sportsman]

This is what the man himself had to say.NB He states that he will alter the set up.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98253
"It was a weekend where I started on pole, and there were two or three things that went wrong in the race that were out of my control. I felt I performed quite well and definitely would have liked to have had my car in a slightly difference position in the set-up and race, but I will alter that this weekend so it shouldn't be a problem.
"I had too much oversteer in high speed, and had a different front wing set-up to Jenson, which I had chosen – and it wasn't the right one.

 

[F1ang-o]

This time last year Lewis made the long-haul, round trip, back to the UK, to watch his brother's first race in a Renault Clio, this seemed impossible, Nic has Cerebral Palsy. LH must have been worried to see his brother driving at around 100mph, wheel to wheel at the BTCC meeting.
Nic has always been there for LH & though it involved miles of air travel, Lewis was there for him.
LH has said in the past, ...."When the pressure of the championship was at its height, I drew real comfort from having my family with me. My mum Carmen & my step mum Linda have always made sacrifices for me & I'm happy that I'm now able to repay them in whatever way I can. And my brother Nic is always there for me. He's the one guy I can totally trust & who always puts a smile on my face."

2008 WDC Lewis said....."Felipe was a great rival all season. He had a fantastic year & drove like a true champion in Brazil. I know exactly how he was feeling on that podium, as I'd experienced the same thing the year before. My heart & that of my family, went out to him & his family. But he's a fighter & he'll come back stronger, just as I did. I'm sure we'll have plenty more battles next season." ......................Felipe had his life threatening crash the following year.

Antony Hamilton must be so proud of his sons, but dismayed at what is said about Lewis in the media.
When he was Lewis' manager he was eyes & ears & made sure Lewis was ok ....

In The Guardian 8th May 2010, an interview by MWhitmarsh, he tells Paul Weaver 'I've proved people wrong over signing Button' ..."People will always try to be cynical in this sport, But when Jenson won the last race, Lewis went up to him spontaneousy & hugged him. No amount of spin or PR from us is going to create that. We are in the unusual posiion of having two of the best drivers in the world, who are both young, disturbingly good-looking chaps with star quality."
PW goes on to say....We are still waiting for that wheel-to-wheel Ben Hur coming together of the two drivers this season. But Whitmarsh insists that they have been given permission to race each other.

At the end of the 2010 season Jenson was the only driver of the top five who could not win the championship at the last race...I think this hurt JB, he was asked at the start of the last race, if he would help LH, he replied that he was racing for himself.
I don't know who was second in the WDC....it was a close called thing. But at the end of 2011 all the drivers were miles behind Vettel......but we are constantly reminded it was JB....how many points behind?
If JB went to Mclaren because there was no Number One driver...then he needs to remember this now...he has taken liberties & got away with some & been caught out with others. He has been out to dinner with the BBC lot on the eve of the race., Martin Brundle said to David Coulthard.on a race day last year, when we were having dinner with Jenson last night, DC didn't answer.....JB gets good TV reviews race day. JB does have an ability to appear relaxed when under pressure, LH wears his heart on his sleeve. That is how they are... & why I prefer LH, if he thinks there is something not right, it is written all over his persona.
LH has stood by his team......and been crucified by the press for them & even thought of leaving F1. Many state what McLaren have done for LH, IMHO Mclaren owe LH big time.....but he doesn't want any favours...... just a level playing field.
It has been said this year's car is JB prefered. LH was given extra leave at the beginning of the year, JB was at work Jan 5th & now he lives in Guernsey?, just a short hop into the McLaren base.
It seems a helluvah mountain to get over now for Lewis........

As for the remarks about Karting days, I'm sure the set of wheels under JBs cheeks, would be superior to the one Lewis' dad was able to afford. Wasn't John Button a car dealer?

 

[Cookinflatsix]

We are in the unusual posiion of having two of the best drivers in the world, who are both young, disturbingly good-looking chaps with star quality."

Whitmarsh said this? I think his wife should start attending more races

As for the remarks about Karting days, I'm sure the set of wheels under JBs cheeks, would be superior to the one Lewis' dad was able to afford. Wasn't John Button a car dealer?

Jenson was definitely not an underprivileged young karting star from a poor background. I think there probably is a correlation between your background and the status of your parents and success in expensive motorsports. Jenson didn't seem short of privilege and didn't mind who knew this.
Hamilton senior worked two jobs to be able to afford to buy karts from Button senior, I am sure Lewis would have looked up to Jenson and wished he could be in that position.

Unlike football where almost anyone can get involved I would say Lewis' rise to WC at his age trumps success for young rich kids in an expensive hobby

 

[downforce]

I thought with limited practice time set-up might have come into play explaining things.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98253
"Hamilton explained that a number of factors – including a clutch problem off the line and the wrong set-up – wrecked his chances of battling Button for the win."

"I had too much oversteer in high speed, and had a different front wing set-up to Jenson, which I had chosen – and it wasn't the right one."


I would also say about the qualifying difference between them, Hamilton abandoned his last run due to outbreaking himself in turn 1 or something, so it was his mistake but If he hadn't he would probably have improved on his previous time and beat Button by more than 1.5 tenths. He got pole position anyway which is more important than the time gap.

Jenson Button was the better driver for me in Melbourne.


It will be interesting to see how they go when the whole race weekend is dry.

 

[johnnoble1990]

Whitmarsh said this? I think his wife should start attending more races

He's constantly hugging Jenson too. This isn't high school Martin.

 

[RasputinLives]

As for the remarks about Karting days, I'm sure the set of wheels under JBs cheeks, would be superior to the one Lewis' dad was able to afford. Wasn't John Button a car dealer?

I've shrugged and smiled at the rest of your post because your a Lewis fan and as a fan you've picked out all the good bits about Hamilton and the bad bits about Jenson and used them to justify your opinion. Thats fair enough. You're a Lewis fan. Good for you. This last quote has made me sigh though - so now even Jenson's karting career can be explained away by superior equiptment.

I'm sure John Button made sure he had good karting equiptment yes especially being an ex rallycross driver but he was hardly a million billionaire.

Meanwhile at the other end of the scale lets put something straight shall we. it is often quoted that Anthony Hamilton had to take on 3 jobs to support Lewis's career (good on him) what isn't stated is what these 3 jobs were. Now as much as you make out that Lewis was tiny Tim whilst Anthony Hamilton is the Bob Cratchett who scraped a living for his son none of the jobs were cleaning, coal mining or slave labour. Anthony Hamilton was an IT manager and in order to support Lewis's career he became an indepent contractor in IT. His 3 jobs at once were his own business taking on 3 contracts at a time. i.e offering IT support or back up for 3 different companies. Whilst I am not suggesting this wasn't hard work and its not great of Anthony to take this on for his son its worth noting because of how much a business can charge for contracts of this nature and if Mr Hamilton senior was doing this for his son's karting career believe me the money would have been there for his Karting equiptment just as much as it was for Jenson's.

So the idea of Anthony having to explained to little Lewis that he could only afford a lawnmower engine for his go-kart whilst John and Jenson lounge around in a pool of gold Scrouge McDuck style idely smasing apart Go-Kart engines for fun is a myth. Both fathers worked very hard to help their son's careers and well done to them but neither were on the povety line.