Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[Bill Boddy]

ppl need to calm down.lewis just was slow off the line coz he lacked grip.

Good job he was on the clean and not the dirty side of the grid then, otherwise heaven knows how far he would have been down the field. Did he really have less grip than Button?

....in clean air im sure hamilton would have been just as fast as jenson was in clean air,so the bad start cost him,then the bad luck he had later in the race.

When he was in clean air he was no faster than Button.

but i expect lewis to get pole on saturday,and get off to a good start on sunday,then we'll see what happens.
but in sundays race i thought lewis looked after his tyres well and his only mistake was the bad start.
also didnt button win a race before lewis in 2010 and lewis win a race before button in 2011?
and lewis beat button in 2010 and button beat lewis in 2011.so so far the driver that hasnt won the first race has gone on to beat the other driver over a season.

In the great majority of seasons since Melbourne started to host the Australian GP the winner of the race has gone on to become WDC. Whether or not his happens this season we will find out later.

 

[gethinceri]

Hi im new here. Does anyone think Jenson compromises quali setup for the race, while Lewis sets up more for quali. Due to DRS lowering 7th gear can make you hit the limiter much earlier in quali, but during the race will be an advantage. Im no expert but im sure there are other ways in which you can benefit a driver in quali but can hurt race performance.

I agree, this is Jenson's "the race performance is key" to Lewis' "I must show I'm fastest all the time every time" (my words, not theirs) and displays Jenson's greater experience.

 

[racecub]

When he was in clean air he was no faster than Button.

I believe Riskitall said "he would have been just as fast as Jenson", not faster

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Good job he was on the clean and not the dirty side of the grid then, otherwise heaven knows how far he would have been down the field.

In the great majority of seasons since Melbourne started to host the Australian GP the winner of the race has gone on to become WDC. Whether or not his happens this season we will find out later.

You know for a fact that he was on the cleaner side do you? Did you take measurements? Do you know someone who took measurements? Or did you dirty Jensons side before the race?

I think the pole sitter has gone on to win the WDC more often then the winner, but I could be wrong, I am sure you can prove this

 

[Bill Boddy]

Have a look at which side of the start straight is the choice of the drivers over the course of the weekend. That will be the clean side. The cars clean it by running on it. They also go down the left hand (pole position) side. Or maybe you have data to prove this wrong.

Are you saying that the majority of the race winners in Melbourne have not gone on to be WDC?

 

[Viscount]

I think the pole sitter has gone on to win the WDC more often then the winner, but I could be wrong, I am sure you can prove this

Out of the last 16 Australian GPs in Melbourne the pole sitter has gone on to win the championship 14 times (87.5%) and the race winner has gone on to win the championship 11 times (68.75%).

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Have a look at which side of the start straight is the choice of the drivers over the course of the weekend. That will be the clean side. The cars clean it by running on it. They also go down the left hand (pole position) side. Or maybe you have data to prove this wrong.

You are not answering the question, you are just coming up with assumptions.

Let's try again

Do you have proof that Lewis' side was cleaner on Sunday or not

You don't even know that the pole sitter has won more WDCs than the winner at this race

I am not interested in hearsay or should be, could be

You say Lewis was on the clean side, you don't know this, you assume this, it's assumed to be the clean side but you don't know if it was on Sunday but that's enough for you to rule that someone is wrong about lack of grip

 

[Vortex]

so patronizing.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

so patronizing.

Yes kiddo, do you have anything to add?

 

[Blog Zbod]

First, Hamilton is under tremendous pressure to outperform his teammate. He is/was widely proclaimed the sport's reigning stud duck. It was his team and Jenson was the interloper. When it comes to Button, he has everything to lose and nothing to gain. If he finishes ahead of Button, it was expected. If he doesn't, he's failed. Jenson's objective is to drive as best he can and where Hamilton finishes is of no consequence.

Second, the current formula of cars were custom made for a driver of Button's skills. They are too overweight at the start to be driven anywhere near the limit, and the fast-disintegrating tyres respond to kindness with like. Hamilton's skills are best suited to a car that responds to being flogged without mercy. He has yet to display so deft a grasp as Button of driving the car, not to his limits, but to its.

 

[Il_leone]

Hi im new here. Does anyone think Jenson compromises quali setup for the race, while Lewis sets up more for quali. Due to DRS lowering 7th gear can make you hit the limiter much earlier in quali, but during the race will be an advantage. Im no expert but im sure there are other ways in which you can benefit a driver in quali but can hurt race performance.

Yes that is what I've been saying Jenson knows Lewis is one of the fastest over one lap so he has to make sure he has a good car for the race

 

[Il_leone]

Whilst a higher grid spot is beneficial, the race is far more important so I don't think either driver would compromise their race setup just for a better qualifying setup. How well each driver individually sets their car up for the race may make a difference though.

i think Red Bull and Vettel proved that getting the car on pole was the easiest to avoid trouble and control the race very few drivers such as Alonso and Button can make up for sacrificing qualifying to be strong in the race

Schumacher's 95 season was all about setting up for the races to be consistently fast because he knew the Williams was about 0.5 seconds faster over 1 lap at least

 

[The Artist.....]

You are not answering the question, you are just coming up with assumptions.

Let's try again

Do you have proof that Lewis' side was cleaner on Sunday or not

You don't even know that the pole sitter has won more WDCs than the winner at this race

I am not interested in hearsay or should be, could be

You say Lewis was on the clean side, you don't know this, you assume this, it's assumed to be the clean side but you don't know if it was on Sunday but that's enough for you to rule that someone is wrong about lack of grip

It may not have been the cleaner side, but it certainly is the side where people had driven down all weekend.. Lots of cars driving down one side of the grid normally has 2 effects... Cleaning the track and laying down grippy rubber. As such... We would normally expect that side of the grid to be cleaner and grippier. However, correlation does not always imply causation...

 

[Bill Boddy]

Cook, I do not have any absolute proof that the pole sitters start place was any cleaner than that of the second driver. However, numerous commentators have said that the pole position on the great majority of circuits is on the clean side, from what I saw of qualifying and the race (the BBC didn't show it all) the preferred line for the drivers was on the pole position side of the circuit, so the natural assumption is (imo, as ever) that the pole position for this year's Australian GP was on the clean side.

Do you have any proof that it wasn't? If so I would not mind being corrected.

riskitall said "didnt button win a race before lewis in 2010 and lewis win a race before button in 2011?
and lewis beat button in 2010 and button beat lewis in 2011.so so far the driver that hasnt won the first race has gone on to beat the other driver over a season."

Had he written "pole position" then I would have responded likewise (except that in both those seasons Hamilton had the first pole of the pair so riskitall's premise would not have worked).

All this is, of course, my opinion. However I will give you one FACT. There are a number of Hamilton supporters who seem to be having difficulty with Button beating Hamilton by driving faster on a dry circuit. They are coming up with all sorts of statements which they cannot prove and are also unlikely.

The will be races which suit Button more than Hamilton, there will be races which suit Hamilton more than Button. In these the tendency will be that the faster driver of the pair on that day will beat the other fair and square.

I have had my say and, unless something new comes up, I will read the responses to this thread but am unlikely to reply.

 

[RasputinLives]

I think people forget that as a kid in karts the person Lewis looked up too and who's records he was trying to beat were Jenson Buttons. Does anyone think their is still an element of 'how do a compete with him?' creeping in when things don't go his way.

I hope Lewis can stat converting his quali pace into race pace soon because it would be nice to see him compete with Jenson and we then we might finally get the answer to the question

 

[Brogan]

Any more bickering of the type which seems to be developing and this thread will be closed and further action taken against those responsible.

Cut it out with the condescending and patronising posts guys, it's becoming very tiring and creating a very unpleasant atmosphere on a lot of threads.

Use the ignore function if you can't deal with a particular member and stop spoiling it for the rest of us.

 

[Bullet190]

As a Hamilton supporter I'm constantly impressed by Button. He seems to deliver good constant results similar to Alonso. The only thing that can let him down a bit is his qualifying, if he gets that sorted he will be superb.
On the other side of the coin..........Writing Hamilton off after 1 race would be very unwise indeed. He may need to learn how to pull the team around him a bit better but the boy can drive, no question.
I get the feeling the real reason Hamilton was annoyed last Sunday was the under fuelling issue. Why on earth would a team under fuel there cars so badly that both drivers were having to turn down there engines from lap 8 ? McLaren have built a very good car, now all they need to do is get there act together and learn how to get the best from it.

 

[liloyster]

Yes that is what I've been saying Jenson knows Lewis is one of the fastest over one lap so he has to make sure he has a good car for the race

The problem for Lewis now is that Jenson has sorted out his qualifying to some extent. Apart from Korea and India he was a tenth or less behind, or quicker. Jenson has found a way to keep close to Lewis in quali, and be quicker in the race. Its been happening for ages now, Lewis really needs to look at where he is going wrong. Stats:

Hungary = 0.1 behind, beats Lewis in race
Spa = Jenson qualified well down field
Monza = Less than 0.1 behind, beats Lewis in race
Signapore = Less than 0.1 ahead, beats Lewis in race
Suzuka = 0.1 ahead
Korea = 0.3 behind, finishes close behind Lewis
India = 0.4 behind, beats Lewis in race
Abu Dhabi = Less than 0.1 behind, Finished well behind Lewis
Brazil 0.2 ahead
Oz 2012 = Less that 0.1 behind, beat Lewis in race.

So more often than not Jenson has been slower slightly slower in quali, but has beaten Lewis in the races. This trend has carried on into 2012. I hope Lewis is aware of this and must stop this to have any chance of beating Jenson this year.

 

[teabagyokel]

Nice point liloyster.

 

[RasputinLives]

The problem for Lewis now is that Jenson has sorted out his qualifying to some extent. Apart from Korea and India he was a tenth or less behind, or quicker. Jenson has found a way to keep close to Lewis in quali, and be quicker in the race. Its been happening for ages now, Lewis really needs to look at where he is going wrong. Stats:

Hungary = 0.1 behind, beats Lewis in race
Spa = Jenson qualified well down field
Monza = Less than 0.1 behind, beats Lewis in race
Signapore = Less than 0.1 ahead, beats Lewis in race
Suzuka = 0.1 ahead
Korea = 0.3 behind, finishes close behind Lewis
India = 0.4 behind, beats Lewis in race
Abu Dhabi = Less than 0.1 behind, Finished well behind Lewis
Brazil 0.2 ahead
Oz 2012 = Less that 0.1 behind, beat Lewis in race.

So more often than not Jenson has been slower slightly slower in quali, but has beaten Lewis in the races. This trend has carried on into 2012. I hope Lewis is aware of this and must stop this to have any chance of beating Jenson this year.

Brilliant set of stats their Liloyster - looks like you've hit the nail on the head with that one. Almost seems like Jenson took the attitude that he's not going to beat him in quali so lets get as near him as possible and worry about him race day.

The interesting thing about the tracks you've listed is that their varied in style and speed yet still the result is the same so its not even like there is a common set up that Jenson is better at. He just seems to have the edge come race down. Fascinating.