Pre-Season Winter testing : 2014 Season

[FB]

It must be like driving in a tunnel for the drivers with the outside of the track so dimly lit.

 

[mjo]

Ultimately I think races like Bahrain are necessary - it helps subsidise races in places such as Spa, Germany etc.

 

[F1Yorkshire]

Does Germany need subsidising? Surely the fan base there is equal to the UK and Japan. Packed grandstands no matter the conditions and plenty of other racing alongside F1.

 

[snowy]

F1Yorkshire Both the German F1 GP circuits are close to bankruptcy and have been for the last decade.

 

[Slyboogy]

The Bahrain GP may be poorly attended, but the circuit itself often produces good racing. The race that sticks in most peoples' mind though is the 2010 race, where they added in an extra loop; this destroyed the flow of the circuit, and it had never been meant to be used for F1.

I agree with that.

I like the circuit, but it's not one of my favourites, but I think the 2010 race didn't do it any justice. They added in the extra section which got dropped, this was the first race with no refuelling and teams were plain conservative, then the next race was like a classic due to the weather conditions and so much action going. 2009 wasn't that great either, but every race that year bar a few sucked.

 

[Plutus]

Plutus ….. I don't think there would be many who don't believe Vettel is a huge talent, some of us though would love to see him having to achieve in a slightly less dominant car. An even playing field is always the best way to judge talent.

I take it you didn't watch the 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2012 seasons?
He may not have won the championship in 2008 and 2009 but his driving was phenomenal. And yes he made mistakes and will make some in future but he is one of the very few drivers, who has learnt and grown from making those mistakes.
Sometimes as a read of such posts, you feel like the writer is suggesting - I know I am exaggerating here - he should win the title in a Marussia, to prove his outstanding talent. And that's the point, he probably wouldn't win it and he'd get a battering, people saying he is not talented and unworthy of those championships.

 

[Westy]

On the Vettel debate, he is undoubtedly a great driver. You can't win a championship, let alone four (on the trot), if you aren't. He did benefit from some outstanding cars over that four year run, but did Senna and Prost not benefit from some outstanding cars? You can also look to Mansel in '92, his car was "tailor made for him" - Newey's own words (see an Autosport article from a couple weeks ago).

Like Plutus said, some will want him to win in the absolute worst car on the grid. Only then (maybe) will they see that he is a pure talent.

Having said that, I can't stand the guy. I feel he is super arrogant (I know other drivers are as well, but...) and he just rubs me the wrong way. I do hope someone else wins the title this year, not to prove anything about Vettel, but for some variety if nothing else.

 

[Lewywo4]

Like Plutus said, some will want him to win in the absolute worst car on the grid. Only then (maybe) will they see that he is a pure talent..

Westy...,I really can't understand how any rational person could think that.

Does anybody know the drivers schedule, for the last 4 days of testing at Bahrain?

 

[Kewee]

Plutus …… You appear to have overlooked the first sentence of my posting where I said Vettel was a huge talent, you also appear to refuse to accept that during his Championship years he and the Red Bull design team were able to make far greater use of the blown diffuser than any other car/driver combination. The entire length of pit road acknowledged and believed he had a significant advantage. The argument people put up saying if that were the case Mark Webber would have been doing much better doesn't hold up, their driving styles were dramatically different, it was widely accepted and known that Webber never liked or adapted to the blown rear end.
I never suggested Vettel should be able to win in the worst car on the grid and if you want to extend to that sort of exaggeration I'm unlikely to respond any further. All I stated was some of us would love to see the top drivers in more evenly matched cars.

 

[Westy]

It comes down to that saying; "haters gonna hate." You know there are people that will criticize Vettel not matter what. I'm sick of him winning, but he is a great driver.

 

[Plutus]

…… You appear to have overlooked the first sentence of my posting where I said Vettel was a huge talent

No, I did not overlook anything, you did day that but then added that,

some of us though would love to see him having to achieve in a slightly less dominant car

which to me clearly implies that there is either a doubt about his level of talent or people simply are not willing to accept it.

you also appear to refuse to accept that during his Championship years he and the Red Bull design team were able to make far greater use of the blown diffuser than any other car/driver combination.

That is the case. The Red Bull however was one of the least reliable top running cars in 2010 and 2012. Reliability is a factor that makes are car dominant and which was not present in 2010 and 2012. Pace alone does not make a car dominant. To me that suggests we did have a fairly level playing field in 2010 and 2012, the Red Bull was the fastest but the least reliable car whilst the Ferrari was second or third fastest but the most reliable car.

 

[Bill Boddy]

2010 Vettel retired 3 times, Australia, Turkey and Korea, however Turkey was self-inflicted. Out of the points in the UK and Belgium, both down to his own errors.

2012 Vettel retired in the European GP and the Italian GP, both with alternator failures. He finished in 11th place in Malaysia following a puncture caused by contact with Karthikeyan.

So he had 4 retirements during the course of two seasons from car failures, hardly poor reliability. Assuming that these cost him 25 points each there were 19 races in 2010 which meant that Vettel would have to make up an average of 2.94 points in each of the remaining races to make up for his losses, whilst in 2012 he would need to make up 2.78 points. Given the speed of the Red Bull this was hardly a handicap to him.

I am not saying that Vettel is a poor driver, he is obviously one of the best ever,but he has had the advantage of the best car by quite a distance.

 

[Bushi]

Your forgetting Bahrein 2010 Bill Boddy where he got struck with a malfunctioning cylinder and gave the victory to Alonso. Also in Catalunya 2010 he got struck with a brake failure. And during the course of those years a KERS issue here and there.

If you want the man with the best reliability than Alonso is your man. As a matter of fact, the only time Alonso got struck with a reliability issue was Malaysia 2010, with a leaking pneumatic valve.

 

[teabagyokel]

We are talking an era where reliability is extremely good. A team as hopeless as Marussia can build a cockroach-mobile that finishes every race in the hands of a less than talented Briton, and McLaren can run all but 20 or so laps across a season. In 2010, Vettel lost lots of points due to unreliability that wasn't his fault - enough that he hadn't sewn it up by the end of Korea. That cracked chassis cost him points on the basis that Webber bossed those races.

The 2012 Red Bull was evidently not dominant. McLaren had probably more times as the frontrunner in pace terms, Lotus were no slouch either. It was not the 2011 car, nor was it the beast of the latter half of 2013!

 

[Mephistopheles]

Anywho the final test starts on Thursday doesn't it? This is your last chance to get it right ladies, before the whole circus starts again and remember, pressure makes diamonds....

 

[Greenlantern101]

Running order for those interested Lewywo4

Bahrain test line-up – 27 February-2 March:

Red Bull
Daniel Ricciardo (27-28 February)
Sebastian Vettel (1-2 March)

Mercedes
Nico Rosberg (27 February & 1 March)
Lewis Hamilton (28 February & 2 March)

Ferrari
Kimi Raikkonen (27 February & 1 March)
Fernando Alonso (28 February & 2 March)

Lotus
Pastor Maldonado (27-28 February)
Romain Grosjean (1-2 March)

McLaren
Kevin Magnussen (27 February & 1 March)
Jenson Button (28 February & 2 March)

Force India
Sergio Perez (27-28 February)
Nico Hulkenberg (1-2 March)

Sauber
TBC

Toro Rosso
TBC

Williams
TBC

Marussia
Max Chilton (27 February & 2 March)
Jules Bianchi (28 February-1 March)

Caterham
Kamui Kobayashi (27 February & 1 March)
Marcus Ericsson (28 February & 2 March)

 

[sushifiesta]

Early days and Mercedes are still leading the way both in laps and time but the Renault teams are looking much more in the game so far - Red Bull are 3rd in lap count and 4th in lap times as I write this. Only two and a bit hours in to the first day though so plenty can still go wrong/right...

 

[The Artist.....]

There's been a lot of discussion about the Red Bull not being a dominant car on the basis of it being unreliable. Of course it has been a dominant car; it has been the overall fastest package every year since 2009. What about the un reliability? Well, ok, maybe the car has displayed some aspects of unreliability, but have you ever considered that this is because the team has pushed the limits in order to try and ensure that they have the fastest car?

If, say, you lose one victory due to unreliability, but manage three 1-2 finishes because of the extra speed in the car, then that unreliability is more than off-set.

In 2013, Vettel broke just about every record in terms of consecutive victories... That wouldn't happen without a great team behind him...

 

[Greenlantern101]

Just broken for lunch and no fast runs yet. Still 2 seconds off the pace from the previous Bahrain test.

 

[RasputinLives]

.....and the team couldn't acheivevit without a great pilot in the seat.

I think the argument over needing to see Vettel in a 'not so good' car is a bit of a Moo point (like a cows opinion. No one cares). You play the hand your dealt in F1 thats always been the way of the sport and what makes it exciting. There is no denying that Vettel has played his hand like a true champion. I've seen drivers not do as well having been dealt even better hands so all those 'its the car' people have to remember it doesn't drive itself.

The whole 'prove it in a lesser car' thing is silly really. I can name the number of people who won a title in a car which wasn't best in the field on one hand and nearly all of them can be put down to someone in the best car making a Fubar of a situation.

I know a lot of people are tired of seeing him winning and I get that and understand why people wanna see someone different win but there is no point denying Vettel is a world class driver and he really has nothing to prive to anyone.

Interesting to see Red Bull making strides in todays test. Still don't see them being at the front by Australia but they'll be lurking close to make the most of any errors.