Poll Will Bahrain happen?

[the_roadie]

I've received an opinion from a consistently factually reliable correspondent of mine, and that opinion is that it's not from RedBull or Ferrari. Because of this correspondent's record in my experience I'm inclined to go along with it even though it's only an opinion.
Just for the sake of discussion, who else might it be? My money's on Whitmarsh (or near offer!)

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I would say Whitmarsh. McLaren are quite socially responsible, what with thier carbon neutrality and all.

 

[siffert_fan]

Although I hope that the race is cancelled, and permanently expunged from the calendar, the only way I can see that happening is if it doesn't cost Bernie and his partners any money. I may be wrong (far from an unknown occurrance), but I think that would require the Bahrain government to cancel the event.

 

[teabagyokel]

I would say Whitmarsh. McLaren are quite socially responsible, what with thier carbon neutrality and all.

And they have extra reason to keep quiet too...

 

[the_roadie]

And they have extra reason to keep quiet too...

"... but for evil to flourish all it takes is good men to keep silent."

 

[teabagyokel]

"... but for evil to flourish all it takes is good men to keep silent."

Morally, the fact we're having this discussion shows a tardiness in the decision-making process which is uncomfortable. However, Whitmarsh is an employee of the Bahraini crown (indirectly) and thus I really don't envy his position in any way.

 

[the_roadie]

Morally, the fact we're having this discussion shows a tardiness in the decision-making process which is uncomfortable. However, Whitmarsh is an employee of the Bahraini crown (indirectly) and thus I really don't envy his position in any way.

Quite right - whichever way he goes and whatever he says he's having the pineapple inserted, rough end first.
Although he's not an employee is he, they're just shareholders surely? Though he is beholden to (or bound to be mindful of) the Bahrainis in their position as investor
Just at the moment and until the Bahrain weekend is over whether there's a race or not, his is the least enviable position in F1.

 

[Blog Zbod]

One quote from this unnamed team principal begins with the expression, "If I'm honest, ..." That phrase rings of Ross Brawn to me. The story having originated in the Guardian leads to the assumption this anonymous principal was from a British team. Those are not words I can easily imagine issuing from the mouth of either Horner or Whitmarsh.

 

[the_roadie]

One quote from this unnamed team principal begins with the expression, "If I'm honest, ..." That phrase rings of Ross Brawn to me. The story having originated in the Guardian leads to the assumption this anonymous principal was from a British team. Those are not words I can easily imagine issuing from the mouth of either Horner or Whitmarsh.

Blog Zbod, you may be right, but on the other hand perhaps because Brawn is so honest he's one of the least likely to need to utter those words,...

 

[FB]

Hmmm, F1 team principle in honesty allegations - not something one of them is often accused of and I'm sure Ross Brawn has been as underhand and tricky as anyone else on the grid. But we digress...

 

[Abnash24]

Grand Prix is looking quite unpromising

 

[Abnash24]

and some more

 

[canis]

Apparently Lotus were quoted by the Bahrain International Circuit showing support for the GP there. Lotus have put out a press statement clarifying that the quotes used were taken from an internal and confidential working document that had been provided in a confidential manner to all F1 team managers last week. They are trying to distance themselves from the discussion in the statement saying

"Lotus F1 Team is one of 12 contestants of the Formula 1 World Championship and we would never try to substitute ourselves for the [FIA], which is the only party entitled to determine if a Grand Prix should go ahead or not, and we endorse the FOTA statement that was issued earlier to this effect"

Is this the teams trying to push the decision back again after Bernie said it was up to them whether the race happened?

 

[Brogan]

The FIA have ultimate control - it's actually written into the sporting reg's that the teams must attend all races.

I expect just like last year it will be called off.

Another F1 farce, it seems to be rather good at that.

 

[canis]

The FIA have ultimate control - it's actually written into the sporting reg's that the teams must attend all races.

While that is blatantly the case I remember reading a quote from Bernie over the past few days (desperately trying to find it again) where he said despite the teams being contracted to be there, if the majority decided not to go then he would call the race off without predjudice. Or in other words, Bernie wants to beat the teams with a stick and charge them for his loss of earnings should he lose out on a race this year again.

He was very generous last year in allowing Bahrain to get away without paying a fee at all, but right now he is caught between a rock and the bank balance. If Bahrain call i off again then he can charge them the fee, if the teams call it off then he can charge them the fee, if he or the FIA call it off then he is out of pocket and will still have to compensate the teams and potentially pay th circuit money to compensate for the loss of the race. His overlords in the investment companies are not going to let him get away with giving up another $40-50 million too easily, especially when they are refinancing their investments into F1 currently...

 

[Josephiah]

Yes, there was something in the other thread about "if they don't want to go, we can't make them". Maybe this is HRT's chance for a 1-2!

 

[Bill Boddy]

....He was very generous last year in allowing Bahrain to get away without paying a fee at all....

According to http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-bahrain-paid-fee-for-2011-gp-bernie-ecclestone/ Bahrain paid the fee last year.

 

[canis]

Yes, in the end they did end up paying the reported $40 million fee, but that was after they tried to re-insert the race into the calendar. With the initial cancellation Bernie stated he would wave the fee for this year as a gesture of good will, but then they tried to re-insert the race later in the year and he wasn't so generous the second time around. This is what led to my comment about Bernie being between a rock and his bank balance.

The way a race is contracted is fairly strange in the wold of sport, but the basics are something like this :-

1) Venue says it is interested in holding a GP, they negotiate with Bernie to get a spot on the calendar (something which Bernie himself doesn't have the power to grant) and agree a payment of varying size to FOM.
2) Bernie is then contracted to provide a full grid of cars (as defined in the current sporting regs/concorde agreement).
3) The venue is under obligation to aquire the appropriate sign off by the FIA, provide all the facilities, marshalls, and is allowed to sell tickets to the GP.
4) Bernie gets to sell all the advertising at the venue for the GP weekend (and keep the money).
5) Bernie is allowed to sell the TV rights to the GP weekend (and keep the money)
6) All costs for hosting the GP fall to the venue (and they get to keep any money that is left over after that from the ticket sales).

So, if Bernie calls off the race, he is contracturally obliged to provide a full grid of cars which is not showing up, hence it costing him money. If the FIA call off the race Bernie is still contracturally obliged to provide a full grid of cars, costing him money. If the teams call off the race then Bernie is still under obligation, but he has a fall guy to take it out on (the teams). If the venue calls off the race then they still have to pay the race fee, plus compensation to Bernie for all his costs.

Guess which of the two options Bernie wants to happen? The venue has made it clear that they will hold the race if everyone tuns up, so he has pushed it to the teams to say they are not going, Bernie doesn't lose out and the teams lower their bank balances in order to have an extra weekend off.

 

[Johnny Carwash]

Personally i think the race will go ahead this year but it maybe the last time that there will be a race held in Bahrain.

 

[siffert_fan]

I see in Autosport that Bernie is saying the only way the race won't take place is if the organizers call it off. The part I find ironic is that the says Bahrain is just like China, just another calendar date. Given China's record on human rights and their constant state of conflict with their neighbors, the analogy is not all that far off.