Vettel's next team mate SPECULATIONOMETER

[Il_leone]

Bushi

He did not get his by Horner or Marko did he racing his teammate right down the pitwall for ignoring team orders. It was not like they were condemning him for not doing as he was told. Even Ron Dennis was not afraid to let Hamilton know who was in charge for disobeying a team order

You mention Alonso who was actually more than happy to accept Vettel as his teammate at Ferrari if it was the case . He left Mclaren because it was issues with the team not Hamilton and actually said he was given an equal opportunity to go for the world title and was never told to move over

Red Bull wanted Hamilton for 2012 and they decided not to have Hamilton with Vettel because they were worried it would destroy the team .

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Who has Vettel beaten - Bourdais, Liuzzi and Webber in Adrian Newey chassis' cars only

 

[RasputinLives]

*sigh* - I wondered when the Adrian Newy chassie thing would come out. Newy doesn't equal gold. Ask Leyton House.

 

[Bushi]

Il_leone: What did Ron do after Hungary 2007? Did he punish Alonso for doing what he did? You would be an idiot as teamowner if your drivers are fighting for the championship and you ban one of them for disobeying a teamorder. What else is there they could do?

The issue with the team was that he was supposed to be numero uno and wasn't happy with equal status. He can say what he what he wants now, he's build the team around him, speaks italian and nows that Luca would never sign Lewis or Vettel.

So, was it Vettel's choice not to have Hamilton? No, it was Christians choice. Vettel has made it clear he would except every team mate, but it seems you missed that one.

Alonso after his both titles was seen as top talent, yet he didn't beat a 'top driver' back than and was nearly beaten by Trulli in 2004 until Briatore kicked him out. With Vettel it's supposed to be all the car, even after his triple titles. True Alonso got legendary status after his fight with Hamilton, but that doesn't make him better than Vettel.

 

[Olivier]

If Alonso goes to RB, that'd be legendary. Vettel is young and still hasn't reached his peak (now that's scary). However Alonso knows every trick on the book and more and it's a mature results-oriented individual. It would be a close call between the 2. I bet Alonso would be willing to learn German if that helps move his agenda further.

 

[Il_leone]

Bushi

He did actually let Hamilton know what he thought of his refusal to move over on the radio expletively. He did not punish Alonso for blocking Hamilton because he wanted to sort it internally . He knew Hamilton was wrong and Alonso up the ante but the stewards and FIA decided to slap them with ridiculous penalties - no Mclaren personnel on podium and no constructors points
Nor did Ron bend over for Alonso's childish antics either afterwards but let Alonso know who was in charge. Alonso signed his own death warrant at Mclaren with Ron and a few senior people but Ron did not sack him and gave him the choice if he was serious about walking away then break the contract he signed

Please provide proof Luca does not want to sign Vettel or Hamilton. For the past 18 months Luca has been harping about Vettel being a future Ferrari driver which has angered Red Bull you seem to have missed that one yourself or not seen the previous numerous posts on this board about it

Vettel plays similar politics at Red Bull because he knows Helmut is in his corner no matter what circumstances which Horner can do nothing about

Vettel better than Alonso is very much disputed given he's had the best car and no world class teammate to prove otherwise - two things he has not proven

 

[Quintessentially]

But they are paid now. They were waiting for their new sponsor to sign which happened a month or so back. hence why they are in contract negotiatiobs with him now I'm guessing.

If my employer had to wait for sponsor money before paying my wages, I'd be very concerned. Not that Kimi is a pauper but I'm sure he has bills to pay. If Redbull put a deal on the table and the terms are good he'll almost certainly sign it.

 

[RasputinLives]

Whilst I agree with your sentiment considrring the amounts of money Kimi has been paid in the past I doubt he has any worry on his bills!

 

[Quintessentially]

I'm sure he is on relatively low wages anyway. The question is whether Lotus can find enough money to sustain the development race this year and especially next year, in order to make him stay.

 

[Bushi]

Il_leone: Alonso signed his death warrant at Mclaren when he unvealed the spy-gate scandal. I truly doubt that he was being kicked out for his actions in Hungary. The only thing Ron could do back than was give the drivers a reprimand and tell them to kiss and make up, cause they where fighting for the championship.

Here you go:

Luca di Montezemolo has played down the prospect ofSebastian Vettel joining Ferrari in 2014, saying he doesn’t want “two roosters” at the team.
“Today the problem is not with drivers,” Montezemolotold Italian radio station Rai.
“2013 is still to come but I don’t want to have two roosters in the same hen house, rather two drivers who race for Ferrari and not for themselves.
“I don’t want problems and rivalries, which we didn’t have between Schumacher and Irvine, between Schumacher and Barrichello, between Alonso and Massa or Massa and Schumi or Massa and Raikkonen.”

source: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/10/15/montezemolo-denies-reports-vettel-join-ferrari/







Marko is nothing more than an advisor, and it's true he has it more for Vettel than for Webber, probably because he brought Vettel to the team. But that doesn't mean he his behind Vettel's back no matter what. But comparing Marko with Luca is like comparing apples with oranges.

My respond to your last question is already in my previous post.

 

[Bushi]

I wonder how much Red Bull is willing to pay for Kimi, since they pay there drivers the least of the top teams, if my memory serves me right.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Alonso was not kicked out of McLaren, he left of his own accord. Since then he has also said that he is quite willing to go head to head with Hamilton as long as it is not at McLaren.

If Raikkonen goes to Red Bull I doubt that it will be because of the money.

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

I think red bull need to sign either Jev or Ricciardo or else it defeats the object of the Red bull juniors programme then.

 

[Jos the Boss]

Neither of them have shown to be particularly better than Buemi and Alguersuari in my opinion

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

The RBR drivers are effectively on performance related pay aren't they? It's probably quite attractive as the car's so good and I don't think they're living a hand-to-mouth existence.

 

[Il_leone]

Bushi

Marko has more weight in say in who drives for Red Bull than either Horner or Newey

The only reason he has not got rid of Webber so far is because Webber deals directly with Mateschitz on his contract

I am sure DC had to retire because the noises being made was to promote Vettel from Toro Rosso.

You don;t go round freely saying I am looking for JEV or Ricciardo to replace Webber at Red Bull from Toro Rosso
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How many principals have denied their interest in certain drivers only for them to sign them some time down the line , Ferrari kept denying they were signing Alonso when he was still at Renault and they did in the end . Red Bull would not come out with an announcement of contract extension if that was not the case

 

[RasputinLives]

How do you know Marko has more say? do you work for Red Bull?

 

[siffert_fan]

It always amazes me when people state so matter-of-factly that the Red Bull is the fastest car, and imply that Seb has nothing to do with the car's speed.They always point out that it is designed by Newey whom, evidently, they consider a God of car design.

If Newey is so great, then Michael Schumacher had to have been even more talented than was generally acknowledged because he never drove a Newey design and, in fact, routinely administered beat-downs to Newey cars.

I would appreciate it if someone, anyone, would provide absolute proof that the Red Bull cars are so superior to everyone else that virtually any driver could win in them. Otherwise, just admit that it is the COMBINATION of car and driver that is so fast and that you really don't know how much of the success of the team can be attributed to either element.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Quite, siffert_fan.
If team mate comparisons are anything to go by, Vettel's record against Webber in the driver's championship during the last four seasons in the same machinery is not insignificant:

Vettel: 2, 1, 1, 1
Webber: 4, 3, 3, 6

Surely, if it were all down to the car and the Newey-designed Red Bull were so superior, Mark's figures would have read more like '3, 2, 2, 2' at worst?

 

[RasputinLives]

To add to those team mate stats Webber has not finished in front of Vettel in a race for over a year now. Last time he did it was British GP 2012. Not many have a record like that.

I'm excluding races Seb didn't finish in obviously.

 

[KekeTheKing]

The last 3 posts are perfect reasons why so many people want to see Kimi in that seat at Red Bull. Webber is a fine pilot, but he's not the ideal barometer by which to measure a soon to be 4 time WDC. If Seb takes on Raikkonen and wins, he will silence any remaining critics.