The Danger of Monaco

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
So there goes the Monaco Grand Prix. We have had a much better race this year, with a reasonable amount of overtaking and action.

But that is not the full story. Both qualifying and the race were red flagged in order for drivers (Sergio Pérez and Vitaly Petrov) to be taken to hospital. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that is the first red flag in a dry race since Luciano Burti's horror smash at Spa in 2001.

Petrov's incident occurred because too many cars on three different laps all happened to concertina into the same straight, just as overtaking and lapping was occurring. It would be confusing anywhere, but the proximity of the wall can hardly have helped the Russian.

Pérez incident was far more worrying. He hit the wall in the run-off area of the Nouvelle Chicane. That wall was narrowly missed by Nico Rosberg in P3 too! Pérez hit the wall side-on, but this is purely down to chance. Would his injuries be much more severe if he'd gone in head on? Surely they would. There have been narrow misses down there before.

Is Monaco just too small, and too dangerous for Formula One to continue to justify its use or does someone have to be injured more severely for the question to be asked. With the incidents which occurred this weekend, at the least the exit of the tunnel must be reconsidered. I hope a wake up call has been heard in the Corridors of Power.
 

dave

Rookie
As much as I like Monaco and the challenge it brings, I am starting to think it's just not suitable anymore for F1. The only reason there's still on the track activity is because of the off the track activity, too many rich people enjoy themselves I think for it to be dropped for a while.

I seem to remember on the tv coverage after Perez crashed some were trying to say it was his fault. If a driver runs slightly wide under braking they should not end up in hospital.

I don't want to say it but for alot of the dangerous things to change in F1 and be safer it will take a drivers death.

If everyone's alright (in the long term) and the racing carries on then it's easy to forget about the near misses.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
It's more of a parade than anything else.

We've seen today that overtaking is extremely difficult unless it's on a car which is very much slower, and the stewards are all too keen to award penalties for causing collisions (unless it's someone getting hit in the rear) to those drivers who do attempt to pass.

That being the case, they should decide whether they want a race or a parade, and be done with it.
 

dave

Rookie
It's more of a parade than anything else.

We've seen today that overtaking is extremely difficult unless it's on a car which is very much slower, and the stewards are all too keen to award penalties for causing collisions (unless it's someone getting hit in the rear) to those drivers who do attempt to pass.

That being the case, they should decide whether they want a race or a parade, and be done with it.

I'm sure they would a race (maybe) but the race/event is there because of the rich and the celebrities that go to it and they don't really care about a duell for 5th place between two cars that shouldn't be that high. They are happy to say they were there, although they probably wouldn't remember it or care in a few weeks time.
 

Pyrope

Podium Finisher
Supporter
Must have been watching a different race from me. I saw some phenomenal drivers maintaining control, right on the limit, for lap after lap. There were quite a few decent overtaking chances, and there was never the feeling that a driver in the lead could baulk the field even though they were 5s a lap slower, as has been the case in the past. Jenson's charge onto the back of Alonso, Alonso in turn harrying Seb. Many other instances throughout the field too. Very disappointed that the last 6 laps were lost, but otherwise a thoroughly enjoyable spectacle.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
and there was never the feeling that a driver in the lead could baulk the field
Maybe not the lead car but there were some ridiculous trains throughout the race and ultimately it was the longest one which was responsible for the red flag.
 

dave

Rookie
I saw that too pretty much Pyrope.

However it doesn't mean that the track isn't dangerous, too dangerous i can't decide right now. However when was the last time two drivers ended up in hospital from two unrelated incidents at the same GP, that's partly how I'm trying to decide if it's safe to race there or not.

With that finish though, I do feel it has exagerated any negative feelings anyone already had about Monaco.

(Tby, I seem to remember a red flag more recent that 2001 but I'm probably wrong, I'm willing to go with you on that).
 

dave

Rookie
Maybe not the lead car but there were some ridiculous trains throughout the race and ultimately it was the longest one which was responsible for the red flag.

I'd say it was more the driver (can't remember who) hitting the wall and losing the tyre that caused the red flag rather than the train. The same could have happen if it was two cars imo
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
Must have been watching a different race from me. I saw some phenomenal drivers maintaining control, right on the limit, for lap after lap. There were quite a few decent overtaking chances, and there was never the feeling that a driver in the lead could baulk the field even though they were 5s a lap slower, as has been the case in the past. Jenson's charge onto the back of Alonso, Alonso in turn harrying Seb. Many other instances throughout the field too. Very disappointed that the last 6 laps were lost, but otherwise a thoroughly enjoyable spectacle.

The last six laps were part of the same race. What happened in those laps is part of the whole story. The race was a crash fest' and events considered as racing incidents anywhere else have been dealt with with a fistful of penalties or pages of slagging off. I also don't think a commentary team funded by our hard earned contributions via the TV license fee gives them the right to use the FORUM to go swimming and partying in the pool. There's been more insight and discussion on CTA in five minutes than the whole half hour of that programme.

I can't believe I've gone off Monaco, but I have. F1 is too fast and new drivers and new teams are a liability in that environment. It's amazing we didn't see more mayhem! I'm just glad most of 'em got out of there unscathed.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
The reason why that "train" happened (no, it isn't because of Trulli being there) was because of the Sutil running on worn Pirelli tyres, we had 10 cars in a train after the chicane out of the tunnel just before the domino effect.

Did we see this last year? No...the Pirelli tyres where the main factor, you can also add in KERS aswell as we saw a lot of cars getting up close and personal at various points where we would never see a car that close to another.

With these rules, I must say...yes, but was it that bad? No...The Perez/Rosberg type of incidents have happened a lot here...and always will with that big bump right on a braking zone.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
The last six laps were part of the same race. What happened in those laps is part of the whole story. The race was a crash fest' and events considered as racing incidents anywhere else have been dealt with with a fistful of penalties or pages of slagging off. I also don't think a commentary team funded by our hard earned contributions via the TV license fee gives them the right to use the FORUM to go swimming and partying in the pool. There's been more insight and discussion on CTA in five minutes than the whole half hour of that programme.

I can't believe I've gone off Monaco, but I have. F1 is too fast and new drivers and new teams are a liability in that environment. It's amazing we didn't see more mayhem! I'm just glad most of 'em got out of there unscathed.

I thought just came to me there reading your post.

Could it possibly be that Monaco getting out grown could be due to F1 dumbing down rules and trying to raise the spectacle? I didn't emphaisise it much in my last post just above.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Could it possibly be that Monaco getting out grown could be due to F1 dumbing down rules and trying to raise the spectacle?
Well certainly if they want to promote overtaking, as they are so obviously desperate to, then the answer would have to be yes.
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
:thumbsup:yes to that Sly. What we saw today was more comedic than anything I've seen since I dunno when. Trouble is comedy isn't funny at 180mph.:o
 

Jen

Here be dragons.
Contributor
I saw that too pretty much Pyrope.

However it doesn't mean that the track isn't dangerous, too dangerous i can't decide right now. However when was the last time two drivers ended up in hospital from two unrelated incidents at the same GP, that's partly how I'm trying to decide if it's safe to race there or not..

One of the reasons these guys started being paid so much was that they could die at any race. Since Senna, the cars have been made almost bulletproof. as they should be because we want to see racing not death. But now we live in the era of 'elf and safety' which explains the reaction to two relatively minor prangs.

Bottom line, racing is dangerous (don't try this at home) - Monaco is probably slightly more dangerous than other tracks because of the close confines. A better test for the drivers' skill - which is one of the reasons we watch.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
F1 has out-grown Monaco, that is obvious. The pits are too small, the track too narrow, the race (typically) very dull. But Monaco will be on the calendar for years to come as the beautiful people and hangers on love it and, especially, the sponsors use it as their show piece. So, unfortunately, I think we are stuck with it for a good few years to come.

One thing that has to be done is either a mandatory ride height, higher than normal, has to be introduced for Monaco or the track has to be improved considerably otherwise a driver is going to be seriously hurt.
 

dave

Rookie
The danger then FB is that then with it's own rules we might end up with non championshipo races again. Then, because it doesn't matter teams will stop going and Monaco isn't as special, no-one goes and then no-one cares.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
:thumbsup:yes to that Sly. What we saw today was more comedic than anything I've seen since I dunno when. Trouble is comedy isn't funny at 180mph.:o

I thought I was the only one to find this race comical! :o F1 looked like an amateur open wheel series with all the collisions, pit stop blunders crashes etc. Just shows that the new rules are COMICAL :snigger:

If it's the rules that make Monaco dangerous sly, what do we do?

Change the rules back to what they were and look stupid (to keep one track on the calender)
or have rules only for Monaco?

I am not saying change the rules for a specific track , I say change the rules overall!!!! "Monaco baby yeeeeeeeeeeaaaah!!!!"

I find that the tyres are too unpredictable, teams think that with shot tyres they can just leave their cars out on track, they have been doing this for years, it always has been full of crashes, and looked comical at times, one race doesn't change it all. I watched a classic F1 clip, Monaco seemed was less tighter back then, why not revert back to that layout? Or make the track a little longer since it's such a short track.

I think a few are having quite a knee-jerk reaction, as we have not had this type of race in a while, which nowadays standards is deemed to be 'unsafe', first it was drivers starting behind safety cars in wet races, now get rid of Monaco?

I am usually highly critical of Monaco, but there are many variables in it's favour as this stuff usually happens at Monaco, '96 only 3 cars crossed the finish line, and that was 15 years ago. That's just one example, I am sure there are many more.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
But now we live in the era of 'elf and safety' which explains the reaction to two relatively minor prangs.

I take your point on the prangs being minor. However, it is clear that the driver is a passenger if he commits a minor mistake on that stretch of tarmac between the tunnel and the Nouveau Chicane. Nico Rosberg was uncomfortably close to a head-on collision down there. It is a roll of the dice whether you get seriously injured into that particular wall. Thankfully, that didn't happen today.

In 1994, Formula One said "never again" when the lives of Roland Ratzenburger and Ayrton Senna were lost at Imola. I personally don't think that the threat of death is an integral part of racing.
 

jez101

Bookies drive nice cars because of people like me
Contributor
I think we need tracks like Monaco on the calendar to provide variety, but there are safety issues that need to be addressed before something bad happens there. I don't agree that Monaco is past saving as a venue, although I would like to see the barrier that Perez hit removed and the braking zone into that chicane sorted out. It's not the first year there have been problems there.

I think the Petrov injury was unfortunately one of those things. He crashed because he was avoiding Algersuari, who was trying to avoid Lewis, who was trying to avoid Sutil. Was the track to blame? Yes, if the walls hadn't been there, Sutil would have gone harmlessly wide, but should all tracks be the same? Not if it can be done safely...
 
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