The Danger of Monaco
- Thread starter teabagyokel
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Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
Whoo hoo! Well you're on the right track! Excuse the pun. Good jobEdit: Coupla posts jumped in before me! Oops, another unintended pun. Oh well
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
Looking at that footage we can see how the chicane that''s a Y junction and drivers have always had to jink left and right to avoid going up the hill on the right. The current design obviously encourages (or should) drivers to slow down somewhat more as they need to make sharper left, right, left jinks to get through. To me it seems the topography doesn't give any more scope for improvement in the layout there.
RevMaxPower
Banned
Simple. Bin the Monaco Grand Prix. Use it maybe as some sort of promotional event but remove it from the F1 Calendar as a race in the Championships. Sorted.
RevMaxPower
Banned
What about replacing Monaco with Magny Cours?
ATL11
Pole Sitter
I thought the crash for Petrov was started by Sutil hitting the wall after Tabac and continuing on the track with a rear left puncture through the Swimming Pool complex. Perez was due to coming out of the tunnel too wide, this can be corrected by resurfacing the bump they have been going on about for years. Massa's crash was marble related and was pushed off line by Hamilton. Hamilton hit Massa @ Station Hairpin, as dis Di Resta (I've forgotten who he hit), Hamilton also hit Maldonado @ turn 1, what I'm trying to get at is I can't remember any of the 3 lesser teams actually causing any of the issues this weekend?
There isn't a problem with Monaco and I think hell will freeze over before it is dropped from the calendar, be like Champ Car dropping the Indy 500. There are some pinch points on the track that need to be looked @ but that is it!
The exit of the tunnel needs a resurfaced to remove the infamous bump, the deformable crash barrier that Perez hit needs if possible to be pushed back, believe there are trees behind it so they may have to consult the Eco Warriors of Monaco. Maybe the barrier @ turn 1 that Maldonado hit could be pushed back, but that would I think would mean moving a building and would mess up the 1st corner which has seen many reiterations in the last 20 years.
Monaco is a great race, yes some may think it's a precession but the new rules this year showed that one of them last bastions of no over taking is being lost (Senna Mansell 92 anyone).....
Do think we were robbed this year of what could of been one of the greatest race ends ever, also for all those who believe Monaco is boring, it probably holds the record for the highest number of different leaders on the last lap of a GP! In 1982, correct me if I'm wrong but it was 5 different leaders.........
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
My remark about the new teams was intended as a reference to their cars being slow and that is why I was surprised that there was not more mayhem.
We saw directly comparable examples in the race where in MS put passes on Hamilton and Rosberg at Loews with both overtaken drivers demonstrating their awareness of the situation and "co-operating" in the event. The same goes for Michaels pass on Lewis at ste Devote and Lewis's pass on him at the same place. Those passes were all applauded. I'm not going to dwell on the attempted overtakes suffice it to say that the lack of awareness on the part of some participants resulted in racing incidents attracting unnecessarily severe damage to cars and kneejerk reactions in the commentary box and in some respects, the stewards room. If F1 can't accept that this stuff will happen in Monaco then I don't think F1 should be there. Which is sad as it has always been in my top three favourites along with Spa and Monza.
We saw directly comparable examples in the race where in MS put passes on Hamilton and Rosberg at Loews with both overtaken drivers demonstrating their awareness of the situation and "co-operating" in the event. The same goes for Michaels pass on Lewis at ste Devote and Lewis's pass on him at the same place. Those passes were all applauded. I'm not going to dwell on the attempted overtakes suffice it to say that the lack of awareness on the part of some participants resulted in racing incidents attracting unnecessarily severe damage to cars and kneejerk reactions in the commentary box and in some respects, the stewards room. If F1 can't accept that this stuff will happen in Monaco then I don't think F1 should be there. Which is sad as it has always been in my top three favourites along with Spa and Monza.
ATL11
Pole Sitter
Oh all the incidents this weekend I believe were caused by drivers who would rather cause an incident/crash than be overtaken and try and get the position back later.
As for your favorite circuits got to agree the 3 are my top 3:
Monza for the drag to the 1st corner coming out of Parabolica.
Monaco, just for the technical nature of the track, real drivers win here....
Spa, the sequence of Eau Rouge, Raidillon & Kemmel and then the noise the cars make within the confines of the trees between Paul Frere & Blanchimont, a superb track.....on my list of things I need to do before I'm 50.
I don't think Monaco is inherently any more dangerous than Valencia, Singapore or Monza. Of course, every attempt should be made to make it as safe as possible, and the barrier at the chicane certainly has been a problem area for a while, but the slower speeds of the cars at Monaco do mitigate the proximity of the armco to some extent in most places.
We've had two unpleasant accidents there this year, but ultimately I feel the safety features did their jobs in both cases. The cars were going just as fast as they are now ten years ago, and with the toughening up of crash testing procedures and materials technology, I think F1 is probably more suitable for Monaco than it was then, not less.
We've had two unpleasant accidents there this year, but ultimately I feel the safety features did their jobs in both cases. The cars were going just as fast as they are now ten years ago, and with the toughening up of crash testing procedures and materials technology, I think F1 is probably more suitable for Monaco than it was then, not less.
Apparently the crane is going to be moved for future events, which should make an extra 20 metres available.
http://adamcooperf1.com/2011/05/31/monaco-chicane-barrier-to-be-moved-for-2012/
http://adamcooperf1.com/2011/05/31/monaco-chicane-barrier-to-be-moved-for-2012/
RevMaxPower
Banned
LifeW12 - Enjoyed your Video. Great to see a driver changing gear PROPERLY!
Once again, I waited for a while before weighing into this one, to see if my mind were changed by anything said before, but as it hasn't been, here goes... I seem to be in a minority in believing that there is nothing wrong with a bit of danger. Every sport, indeed every recreational activity pretty much, has its own, and why we believe that beaning a car around city streets at 180 mph should be entirely free of danger is beyond me. Petrov's injuries are less than Andy Murray sustained in the French Open this weekend, yet the tennis player got a bit of a rub and carried on playing while the F1 princess was taken to hospital. I'm a keen cyclist and the number of times I've ended up in hospital or administering serious home remedies in the last 30 years is astonishing. Fractured elbow, fractured skull, six inch lacerations to each leg at various times, gravel rash more often than I care to think about, and even a concussion (and, from experience, if Perez's doctors were happy to let him out of hospital in only 36 hours then it was not a serious concussion). I'm probably forgetting a few more (might be the concussion...). I've also come pretty close to death at times (my least favourite being dangling over a 200 foot cliff in Switzerland supported only by my shorts having been snagged in bush). I've had friends in hospital for very lengthy periods from cycling-related injuries, and just last year a group of six cyclists were obliterated by a dumb truck driver just down the road from me. Will I stop riding? Heck, no! You try and stop me and I'll wrap d-lock round your neck, attach you to a tree, rub you with clover and leave you for the groundhogs. Many pro hockey players only reckon on making 50-70% of the games each season as they know they'll have injuries at other times, and every year people die motorcycling, powerboating, skiing, snowmobiling, well, the list is almost endless. Have people stopped doing these sports? Heck, no. If you aren't prepared to take the risks, stay home and play chess. Although I'd watch out for that RSI, I hear it stings something awful.
What I'm trying to say is that the removal of all risk is an insane utopia. I suppose the problem is one of where to draw the line? The logical end point of the current F1 attitude is for all races to take place on giant tarmac pans with the track only drawn on the surface, and no corner faster than 50 mph. You want that? I don't actively want to see people hurt, but when you are taking part in a sport that involves controlling 750 bhp cars, running in close proximity, and attempting to pass one another around a narrow ribbon of tarmac the possibility would seem to go with the territory. Jackie Stewart decided that he didn't want to take the risk any more and stopped, and fair play to him. Others saw the same accidents and deaths and decided to carry on. Some were even involved in huge accidents and decided to return, despite the fact that by that time they had earned enough money to be able to live the rest of their lives without ever having to work again. We have already seen the loss of too many classic, exciting circuits to the excuse of safety, with Zandvoort and the original Österreichring featuring pretty high on that list. A small irony is that when the F1 circus first went to the Österreichring Rob Walker described it as a "safe, modern circuit"! Even Radillion-Eau Rouge is nowhere near the challenge it used to be as it has been so drastically reprofiled in the last few years. Stories of racing drivers giving banshee yells as they descended from La Source just to work up the courage for that piece of track are long a thing of the past. Motor racing shouldn't be easy. Motor racing shouldn't just be a live version of the PlayStation game. Monaco is a great circuit, and one of the great things is that it punishes mistakes. I'm not at all fussed by the relative lack of overtaking there, as the head-on shots of Hamilton pushing his McLaren through the swimming pool complex more than fill my excitement quota. Monaco is all about bravery and precision, and that's how it should be, but you can't be brave if there is no danger. Every accident this week was caused by a driver error, and if a minor concussion and a slightly bruised ankle is as bad as it got I can live with that.
What I'm trying to say is that the removal of all risk is an insane utopia. I suppose the problem is one of where to draw the line? The logical end point of the current F1 attitude is for all races to take place on giant tarmac pans with the track only drawn on the surface, and no corner faster than 50 mph. You want that? I don't actively want to see people hurt, but when you are taking part in a sport that involves controlling 750 bhp cars, running in close proximity, and attempting to pass one another around a narrow ribbon of tarmac the possibility would seem to go with the territory. Jackie Stewart decided that he didn't want to take the risk any more and stopped, and fair play to him. Others saw the same accidents and deaths and decided to carry on. Some were even involved in huge accidents and decided to return, despite the fact that by that time they had earned enough money to be able to live the rest of their lives without ever having to work again. We have already seen the loss of too many classic, exciting circuits to the excuse of safety, with Zandvoort and the original Österreichring featuring pretty high on that list. A small irony is that when the F1 circus first went to the Österreichring Rob Walker described it as a "safe, modern circuit"! Even Radillion-Eau Rouge is nowhere near the challenge it used to be as it has been so drastically reprofiled in the last few years. Stories of racing drivers giving banshee yells as they descended from La Source just to work up the courage for that piece of track are long a thing of the past. Motor racing shouldn't be easy. Motor racing shouldn't just be a live version of the PlayStation game. Monaco is a great circuit, and one of the great things is that it punishes mistakes. I'm not at all fussed by the relative lack of overtaking there, as the head-on shots of Hamilton pushing his McLaren through the swimming pool complex more than fill my excitement quota. Monaco is all about bravery and precision, and that's how it should be, but you can't be brave if there is no danger. Every accident this week was caused by a driver error, and if a minor concussion and a slightly bruised ankle is as bad as it got I can live with that.
If it were just this year, I would not be so worried, but there have been a number of bad ones that I can remember there over the last 20 years or so - far more than at any other corner on any other track (at least a track that is still used). Wendlinger and Button in particular.
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