F1Brits_90
World Champion
Dario franchitti made a good point but we've known this in F1, for a many years you need 2 good drivers now the Schumacher barrichello relationship doesnt work.
Formula E News and General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter cider_and_toast
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I completely disagree with that last statement. Whenever you get two top drivers together in F1 you end up with problems and not winning anything - unless your car is so superior that there is no one to compete with you when your driver's crash into each other.
Hamilton/Bottas is one of the most successful combinations in F1. Hamilton/Rosberg nearly cost Merc championships. Vettel/LeClerc? Crashes galore. Verstappen with Riccardo? Crashing and unstable. With Gasly/Albon? Dominant and on top form. If you look at the most dominant periods of F1 you'll see a clear number 1 and a clear number 2. You can quote Senna/Prost at me all you like but no one can convince me that was healthy.
Back to Formula E though.....Franchitti's point was because the gap between front and back is so small that you can't do like F1 and have a number 1 and a number 2 because the number 2 gets swallowed up and you lose out in the team championship. Which is very different to F1 where you can put Brian the Blind Moron in a Merc and he'd still finish at least 4th.
Hamilton/Bottas is one of the most successful combinations in F1. Hamilton/Rosberg nearly cost Merc championships. Vettel/LeClerc? Crashes galore. Verstappen with Riccardo? Crashing and unstable. With Gasly/Albon? Dominant and on top form. If you look at the most dominant periods of F1 you'll see a clear number 1 and a clear number 2. You can quote Senna/Prost at me all you like but no one can convince me that was healthy.
Back to Formula E though.....Franchitti's point was because the gap between front and back is so small that you can't do like F1 and have a number 1 and a number 2 because the number 2 gets swallowed up and you lose out in the team championship. Which is very different to F1 where you can put Brian the Blind Moron in a Merc and he'd still finish at least 4th.
F1Brits_90
World Champion
what about Vettel Kimi, yes Ferrari have issue but that came through vettel insecurities, you cannot tell me that vettel kimi releationship was healthy for Ferrari competiveness, vettel was comfortable & not getting the best out of the car. especially proven when Leclerc came & showing what vettel was leaving on the table. yes they had a few crashes but that got the best out of them
but look at how good te cheetah are with 2 great drivers, vergne is having abit of a blip nothing against him because after 2 titles in row a slight dip is to be expected but instead of Bottas/kimi like number 2 not being in contention, you have da costa taking up the baton
but look at how good te cheetah are with 2 great drivers, vergne is having abit of a blip nothing against him because after 2 titles in row a slight dip is to be expected but instead of Bottas/kimi like number 2 not being in contention, you have da costa taking up the baton
Vergne drove from 11th to 3rd with the flu so I wouldn't say blip just yet.
Interestingly I actually do think the Vettel/Kimi pairing was healthy, in just the same way I think Schumacher/Barrichello was healthy. Top driver who knows he is top driver so doesn't worry about being number 1 in the team, and a second driver who develops the car and sets it up for his lead. Name me a multiple world champion and I'll name you his set up driver.
Anyways the point I was making on Formula E is that the field spread is so close that your Abts, Jani's and Caledo's ain't gonna get you constructors titles.
Interestingly I actually do think the Vettel/Kimi pairing was healthy, in just the same way I think Schumacher/Barrichello was healthy. Top driver who knows he is top driver so doesn't worry about being number 1 in the team, and a second driver who develops the car and sets it up for his lead. Name me a multiple world champion and I'll name you his set up driver.
Anyways the point I was making on Formula E is that the field spread is so close that your Abts, Jani's and Caledo's ain't gonna get you constructors titles.
F1Brits_90
World Champion
Ayrton senna
or Niki Lauda as they were both either Joint no1s in 1988 or joined as number 2 in 1974but anyway vergne is bad just a blip every sportsman has them you cant be 100% all season every season, but qualifying isn't great & 2nd to his teammate, but by no means out of title race. but you have vettel/kimi mercedes win Belgium italy singapiore & in monza in 2019 they don't win & likely they qualify 3rd & 5th. with Mercedes front row lockout
that why if jaguar have someone to push evans they are fine if qualy mistake happened because they have another option & im sure vergne has the motivation to get up to the front because of da costa pole. because if it lotterer again, he wouldve probally thought of championship stayed 3rd took plaudits with teammate in 6th. you cant be a 1 trick pony anymore
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I've concluded three things from this conversation F1Brits_90 and they are thus:
a) if you think to win F1 teams must have two top class drivers then you must think Bottas a world class driver and love him lots.
b) you could have said Prost 89 and Piquet 87 too but pretty much every title since then has been won by a good number 1 and number 2 combination
c) You're a massive Antonio Felix Da Costa fan
a) if you think to win F1 teams must have two top class drivers then you must think Bottas a world class driver and love him lots.
b) you could have said Prost 89 and Piquet 87 too but pretty much every title since then has been won by a good number 1 and number 2 combination
c) You're a massive Antonio Felix Da Costa fan
F1Brits_90
World Champion
A - you know is not true 
but it my preference, i think sportsman produce the best performance when they are under pressure, there were many who called Hamilton 6th an anti climax. because by his high standards he was good instead of excellent. i dont think that ferrari under kimi would had the chance to win 10 races last season
B - i would say 70/30 of the 30yrs. 96 98 09 10 14 15 & 16 were the exception when title winning team had 2 drivers were allowed to win the title
C if anything im sam bird fan alot like sheff utd. high expectations promises alot but then in the end lets you down. but da costa is driving extremely well 3 podiums & has been the better driver
but it my preference, i think sportsman produce the best performance when they are under pressure, there were many who called Hamilton 6th an anti climax. because by his high standards he was good instead of excellent. i dont think that ferrari under kimi would had the chance to win 10 races last seasonB - i would say 70/30 of the 30yrs. 96 98 09 10 14 15 & 16 were the exception when title winning team had 2 drivers were allowed to win the title
C if anything im sam bird fan alot like sheff utd. high expectations promises alot but then in the end lets you down. but da costa is driving extremely well 3 podiums & has been the better driver
98? Come on. DC pulled over and let Mika win on the orders of the team both in the last race of 97 and the first race of 98. He was a classic number 2.
F1Brits_90
World Champion
but that was because the race was to the 1st pit stop & agreement. but it was like ferrari this season, coulthard was a contender at the start but the talent made 1 the overwhelming favourite
Ahhhh yes the imaginary gentleman's agreement DC made up to save face and make an early bid for Sports Personality of the year.
DC, Britain's Mark Webber
Let's be fair. Webber came close to winning a title once. I think a better phrasing would be DC, a poor man's Mark Webber.
F1Brits_90
World Champion
David Coulthard was like Kimi. & that was team orders said by ron dennis 1st not coulthard.
but in Australia they both had the chance, to win the title. even if he was number 2 to Hakkinen by france
but in Australia they both had the chance, to win the title. even if he was number 2 to Hakkinen by france
Coulthard was soundly beaten by Kimi.
Coulthard drove into the pit wall under no pressure what so ever while trying to make a pitstop.
I'm still laughing now.
I'm still laughing now.
I'm laughing at spinning on the parade lap when he was on pole and having to start from the pits.
Ahhhh good times.
Ahhhh good times.
Dartman
Banned
Coulthard probably had the most wins without being a WDC, he was very quick but always seemed to get brain fade at stupid moments the parade lap spin and the pit wall being the most famous, but he had a few under Williams when he just crashed, I suspect this is why Frank let him go and he was No2 at McClaren
Most winning F1 drivers without who haven't won a world title:
Sir Stirling - 16
Webber - 13
DC - 13
Ruetemann - 12
Rubens - 11
Massa - 11
Sir Stirling - 16
Webber - 13
DC - 13
Ruetemann - 12
Rubens - 11
Massa - 11
Did you know when they thought they lost the F1 that David Coulthard's production company (who do F1 on CH4) were going to sign a deal to cover the Formula E? It was only when F1 had a last minute panic and gave them acces that they switched back.
Oh look we're back on topic!
Interesting bunch of names on the Formula E test sheet in the Marrakesh test they just had.
I can certainly see Cassidy and Sette Camera finding a home in Formula E and troubling then front. I quite rate Lucas Auer (Berger's nephew) too. Also pretty sure Chadwick will get a run at some point just to generate some PR for Jag and keep the project alive. To be fair I'm pretty sure she can match if not beat what Caladeo is doing.
Oh look we're back on topic!
Interesting bunch of names on the Formula E test sheet in the Marrakesh test they just had.
I can certainly see Cassidy and Sette Camera finding a home in Formula E and troubling then front. I quite rate Lucas Auer (Berger's nephew) too. Also pretty sure Chadwick will get a run at some point just to generate some PR for Jag and keep the project alive. To be fair I'm pretty sure she can match if not beat what Caladeo is doing.
2 | Nick Cassidy | Virgin | 1:16.467 | | 29 | |
2 | 7 | Sergio Sette Camara | Dragon | 1:16.930 | 0.463 | 42 |
3 | 25 | Filipe Albuquerque | DS Techeetah | 1:17.092 | 0.625 | 36 |
4 | 13 | Nicolas Lapierre | DS Techeetah | 1:17.116 | 0.649 | 35 |
5 | 28 | Kyle Kirkwood | BMW | 1:17.272 | 0.805 | 33 |
6 | 19 | Norman Nato | Venturi | 1:17.302 | 0.835 | 48 |
7 | 17 | Jake Hughes | Mercedes | 1:17.303 | 0.836 | 35 |
8 | 27 | Lucas Auer | BMW | 1:17.327 | 0.86 | 42 |
9 | 66 | Kelvin van der Linde | Audi | 1:17.360 | 0.893 | 41 |
10 | 51 | Sacha Fenestraz | Jaguar | 1:17.490 | 1.023 | 33 |
11 | 5 | Dani Juncadella | Mercedes | 1:17.594 | 1.127 | 45 |
12 | 11 | Mattia Drudi | Audi | 1:17.703 | 1.236 | 36 |
13 | 20 | Jamie Chadwick | Jaguar | 1:17.721 | 1.254 | 45 |
14 | 22 | Mitsunori Takaboshi | Nissan | 1:17.799 | 1.332 | 39 |
15 | 36 | Thomas Preining | Porsche | 1:17.904 | 1.437 | 38 |
16 | 64 | Pipo Derani | Mahindra | 1:17.941 | 1.474 | 37 |
17 | 23 | Jann Mardenborough | Nissan | 1:17.942 | 1.475 | 38 |
18 | 6 | Joel Eriksson | Dragon | 1:18.019 | 1.552 | 36 |
19 | 48 | Arthur Leclerc | Venturi | 1:18.076 | 1.609 | 38 |
20 | 94 | Sam Dejonghe | Mahindra | 1:18.141 | 1.674 | 44 |
21 | 4 | Alice Powell | Virgin | 1:18.301 | 1.834 | 39 |
22 | 33 | Antonio Fuoco | NIO | 1:18.825 | 2.358 | 41 |
23 | 3 | Daniel Cao | NIO | 1:19.234 | 2.767 | 42 |
24 | 18 | Frederic Makowiecki |
F1Brits_90
World Champion
yes I agree with that, but I was on about the kimi of 2014 - 2018. which coulthard was in mid 98 - 04. in a way also 98 was alot like 2019 both were going for the title but my mid season the class had told. according to DC Dartman it was the fact that mclaren offered a 3 yr deal & williams a 1 that meant that he left but that couldve been frank not wanting to commit
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a few names there that i had wondered where they gone, sette camara & Nato after leaving F2, didnt know lapierre was still going thought he wouldve retired by now. & i would like to see chadwick get a go she was clearly class of the field in the W series earlier
