Mercedes and Ferrari in 'secret' Pirelli tyre tests
- Thread starter The Artist.....
- Start date
So, it's emerged that Pirelli also offered Red Bull a test but they declined because the sun shines out their arse and they thought it would break the rules.
http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...d-Pirelli-approach-for-fear-of-breaking-rules
http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...d-Pirelli-approach-for-fear-of-breaking-rules
Hmm...all we have there is Horner's word that Red Bull were approached by Pirelli, and his "beyond reproach" refusal to test based on the current car rules - comes across as a bit of a nasty "holier than thou" attempt to put Mercedes in an even worse light ahead of the tribunal...
http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...oversial-Barcelona-tyre-test-was-his-decision
Not long til 20th June.....
Not long til 20th June.....
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
Horner is proving to be a spiteful little man isn't he? Why, I wonder, were the team managers in yesterdays' press conference so guarded in their comments with regard to clarifying the testing rules? A few hints that they know something is wrong with the regulations but it's like they're afraid to speak up. Either that or they don't want to pipe up without having their own personal solution worked out first. Is it a case of egos standing in the way of cooperation? Strange.
I have a feeling things may calm down a bit on Sunday night. It was rather unfortunate for Mercedes that Monaco occurred immediately after this private test revelation as it is by far the least demanding circuit on tires. If Montreal proves that Merc still have tire issues, then Horner and Co. will probably chill out a little.
KekeTheKing but can you imagine the shit storm if that is not the case?
Yeah, but that doesn't mean it'll be warranted.
mileso
Test Driver
I can't believe all the sniping at Red Bull. Am I wrong or is it not Mercedes that's on the hot seat?
Did anyone expect any of the other teams to come out and say "Well done Mercedes, you did something strictly against the rules, but we forgive you."?
Didn't Pirelli have similar tires in use before?
The new tires will at least stop the practice of swapping left for right rears in the future.
Did anyone expect any of the other teams to come out and say "Well done Mercedes, you did something strictly against the rules, but we forgive you."?
Didn't Pirelli have similar tires in use before?
The new tires will at least stop the practice of swapping left for right rears in the future.
Look at it this way if Red Bull were approached and declined because they felt is was against the rules then they did the right thing and Mercedes didn't, and on the other hand if Red Bull were not approached then Pirelli did the wrong thing and so did Mercedes by accepting, leaving Mercedes just as much in the shit..
It is very obvious to me that certain posters are trying to blame everyone else for this fuck up from Charlie Whiting to to Christian Horner and uncle Tom Cobley and all, as long it isn't the real culprits those being Mercedes, Ross has come out and said it was his fault putting his head on the chopping block so just accept that and stop trying to pass the buck....
It is very obvious to me that certain posters are trying to blame everyone else for this fuck up from Charlie Whiting to to Christian Horner and uncle Tom Cobley and all, as long it isn't the real culprits those being Mercedes, Ross has come out and said it was his fault putting his head on the chopping block so just accept that and stop trying to pass the buck....
What if Red Bull were approached and declined because they felt it was against the rules, and then later (say around June 20th) they discovered that it was within the rules and that Ross Brawn had found another loophole, like he had in 2009 with the double diffuser?
Let's not forget, RB spotted the double diffuser loophole the previous season and alerted the other teams, suggesting that the rules might want changing to close it. No-one was interested, he exploited it and the rest is history.
Let's not forget, RB spotted the double diffuser loophole the previous season and alerted the other teams, suggesting that the rules might want changing to close it. No-one was interested, he exploited it and the rest is history.
Going back to the original letter from the FIA, it says a current car can be used providing every team is given the opportunity and if the test is run by Pirelli and not the team providing the car.
We have had official confirmation that Ferrari also carried out a test and that Red Bull were asked, as well as Pirelli saying they've asked everyone but many didn't reply or declined. We have also heard that Pirelli dictated what happened on the day and that the tyres used were unmarked. Also, note that in this letter there is no restriction on a current car or current drivers being used providing everyone gets the opportunity. If you go by this letter, Mercedes/Pirelli haven't done anything wrong apart from not keeping the FIA fully informed.
In my opinion the FIA and Pirelli are more to blame for this mess, and I'd like to think I'd hold that view whoever the team in question was.
We have had official confirmation that Ferrari also carried out a test and that Red Bull were asked, as well as Pirelli saying they've asked everyone but many didn't reply or declined. We have also heard that Pirelli dictated what happened on the day and that the tyres used were unmarked. Also, note that in this letter there is no restriction on a current car or current drivers being used providing everyone gets the opportunity. If you go by this letter, Mercedes/Pirelli haven't done anything wrong apart from not keeping the FIA fully informed.
In my opinion the FIA and Pirelli are more to blame for this mess, and I'd like to think I'd hold that view whoever the team in question was.
It depends on how many points. McLaren got some points docked in 2007. It happened to be equal to the number of points they scored through the season.
I think in terms of a points deduction, it is a tricky one to judge, as there are no guidelines (I believe) and as the subject under discussion does not pertain to a specific race (like Hungary 2007) it is difficult to ascertain what a "reasonable" course of action would be, should the outcome of the tribunal find it necessary. A fine is punitive, and easier to adjudge, but would also sit in the realms of "It therefore costs x to conduct a test in season" and may (note MAY) lead to even further rhetoric.
I think in terms of a points deduction, it is a tricky one to judge, as there are no guidelines (I believe) and as the subject under discussion does not pertain to a specific race (like Hungary 2007) it is difficult to ascertain what a "reasonable" course of action would be, should the outcome of the tribunal find it necessary. A fine is punitive, and easier to adjudge, but would also sit in the realms of "It therefore costs x to conduct a test in season" and may (note MAY) lead to even further rhetoric.
http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...ra-s-box-if-Mercedes-escape-Testgate-sanction
I think they ought to let...Lauda & Marko 'slug' it out...no Queensberry rules......
I think they ought to let...Lauda & Marko 'slug' it out...no Queensberry rules......
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
It's quite amusing that a team that has been complaining most vociferously about the poor performance of the tyres, and has a history of pushing the boundaries of the rules, declined an opportunity to sign up to some Pirelli testing. Also RBR haven't said whether or not they gave Pirelli an alternative by saying "yes, but we can only do it with an older car."
The way Ross Brawn tells it other teams (he mentioned no names) turned Pirelli down because they weren't going to get paid for it. It will be interesting to see if Pirelli produce any emails at the IT to confirm that that was that case. Of course Red Bull can't be one of those otherwise Marko's comments about spending could be seen in another light.
Another irony is that any improvement in the tyres, thanks to Mercedes helping Pirelli to sort them out, would likely benefit RBR since their own issues with the rubber are closer to those suffered by Mercedes than any of the other teams. But hey, lets not get in the way of politics.
The way Ross Brawn tells it other teams (he mentioned no names) turned Pirelli down because they weren't going to get paid for it. It will be interesting to see if Pirelli produce any emails at the IT to confirm that that was that case. Of course Red Bull can't be one of those otherwise Marko's comments about spending could be seen in another light.
Another irony is that any improvement in the tyres, thanks to Mercedes helping Pirelli to sort them out, would likely benefit RBR since their own issues with the rubber are closer to those suffered by Mercedes than any of the other teams. But hey, lets not get in the way of politics.
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