Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[Fenderman]

Sorry, The Artist..... I was being mishievous.

 

[RickD]

Fenderman - Why do you think i'm not rising to it..

 

[Fenderman]

 

[Hamberg]

I think they are playing it race by race for the constructors. Last race a point for Hamilton was compromised to allow Button potentially an extra 5-7 points. Same today as Hamilton was looking good for the win. Mclaren are looking at Constructors position at the mo, not drivers.

 

[RickD]

Hamberg - If that was the case, why move Jenson onto a 3 stop and lose him points?!?

 

[The Artist.....]

RickD - I think I can understand McLaren's logic - in that they wanted to pit before Vettel, to try and get the undercut - BUT they didn't factor in the fact they would send him out behind Senna!

 

[Fenderman]

1st serious post of the day ... Hamberg - I think Martin Whitmarsh's clear disappointment and admission of hving cocked up Button's strategy suggests otherwise. No team intentionally compromises one of its drivers o lose points to the opposition. Oh, and I also think that that situation is not the same as having drivers switch position to benefit the one who has most chance of winning a race or championship. McLaren may well think about that scenario later in the season but right now the want and need to get the best out of both drivers and the team as a whole. Otherwise, they will compomise both the Constructors and Drivers championships.

 

[Hamberg]

Oh don't get me wrong today's decision was a cock up and one the Red Bulls made. I'm responding to the 'Button is Hamiltons wingman' posts.
Not so. The last 2/3 races have shown or can allow a reasonable assumption that McLaren are using their drivers to help the other whether during the race or as the one to test the strategy.

What I am not seeing is a number one driver in McLarens eyes. Their number one is on a race by race basis and how to get the most constructors points. Had they not 'used' Button today, or had the opportunity to see what a ludicrous decision it turned out to be, they would have had both drivers on a 3 stop.

 

[Wombcat]

Hamberg - If that was the case, why move Jenson onto a 3 stop and lose him points?!?

Maybe Buttons' tyres wouldn't last. He was the first to pit in the first stint. The same in the 2nd. Realisticly you couldn't expect him to do almost half the race with one set of tyres. Maybe he just had too much tyrewear.

 

[Hamberg]

Button says he's confused as his tyres were ok. I've a horrible feeling that they were covering vettel following his "you need to do something" messages

 

[Fenderman]

In his interviews he said that he had been called in early on both his first two stops. He said he felt his tyres were fine and fairly clearly intimated that he didn't feel that they were the right calls. He was visibly unhappy about the strategy failure. I think that says it all about one of McLaren's basic flaws that they have yet to deal with. That is their over reliance on their boffins in mission control. McLaren really do have to learn how to properly consult and listen to their drivers. When they get that right we may start seeing more victories and perhaps some one-two's as well.

 

[Hamberg]

Or the drivers need to have more balls and make their own calls? Button seemed very confused and questioned the first call. Maybe they need to be more Alonsoesque now...

 

[The Artist.....]

It was a mistake for Button to stop 3 times. However, it made perfect sense in trying to stay ahead of Vettel. However, unfortunately, it turned into a bit of a cock-up because Bruno was ahead of him....

 

[racecub]

I don't think there's anyway Whitmarsh will ask Button to be Hamilton's wing man. And if he did I don't think Button would play ball. He's already said(2010 I think) even if he had no chance of the championship he'd be driving his own race for himself. And look at Silverstone, he held Lewis up for a lap when he was on a completely different strategy. No help will be forthcoming from Button methinks. Which is fine, but Lewis....take note!!

 

[sushifiesta]

Something just dawned on me (at 2am...)

It seems to me that during today's race we saw a bit of a role reversal. A lot of the McLaren team messages we heard were discussions back and forth about how the tyres were going on Lewis' side (paraphrasing, McLaren: "how were those tyres at the end", Lewis: "OK", McLaren: "we're on for a two stop"), whereas on Jenson's side it was more one sided with McLaren telling him what to do.

Maybe it's just the selection of messages that were shown/I heard, but it seems like maybe at the moment we have a case of Lewis being able to understand and use the tyres better than Jenson, with McLaren trusting his input with respects to strategy more as a result. On the flip side, we see Jenson end up on a poor strategy, something that we have associated more with Lewis over the last couple of years.

Maybe I'm just seeing thing that aren't there in my sleepy state though...

 

[RickD]

The Artist..... - I can kind of see what they were trying, but think if they had stayed out even an extra lap compared to Vettel, they would likely have been ahead still as Jenson was only holding Seb up on the soft tyres, all it would have required was Jenson to bang one in when Seb pitted and there would have been the possibility of Seb being stuck behind Bruno instead. Surely that should have been obvious to the strategists?

Therefore, I do believe McLaren used his as a guniea pig for Lewis on this occasion..

sushifiesta - I think you are seeing things that aren't there. If you listen to the pit radio, Jenson is the only one who questioned the change of strategy, Lewis just accepted it (even though he wasn't put on it in the end).

 

[racecub]

@Shushifiesta I agree with you. McLaren seem finally to have realised that Lewis can work the tyres and set the car up. Its taken them a while but hey ho, at least they've got there!!

 

[sushifiesta]

I think you are seeing things that aren't there

Listening back to the pit radio, I think I agree with you! However, the point that Lewis is making better use of the tyres and often ends up on a better strategy as a result still stands.

 

[racecub]

sushifiesta - I think you are seeing things that aren't there. If you listen to the pit radio, Jenson is the only one who questioned the change of strategy, Lewis just accepted it (even though he wasn't put on it in the end).

After the race Lewis was asked about the strategy and here is his reply. It suggests to me that he did question the strategy they wanted to put him on, and actually forced his point, because he stayed on the strategy he wanted to be on.So he certainly didn't just accept it. It also suggests that McLaren had no faith that he could make the strategy work. I think he said something after the race to the effect " You didn't believe in me"
Here's the question and Lewis' answer.......

Q:
Was there any temptation to go for a third stop?

Lewis Hamilton:
The team were talking about it. The plan was to do a two-stop but, you know, I had my target laps and the team weren't confident that I was going to make it to those laps but I knew I would. In my second stint I could have gone longer but they wanted to cover the guys behind which was probably the right thing to do. So, as we did that, then it was just trying to make those tyres last a long time while keeping this guy [Räikkönen] behind. Which as you know, they are absolutely rapid, these guys. So, you know, if we were on another track where overtaking was much easier I think perhaps the result would have been different.

 

[Mephistopheles]

racecub you have to be very specific in a statement like that because;

• You didn't believe in me, is an accusation against the team, with a feeling of I told you so.
• Didn't you believe in me, is a question with a feeling of disbelief..
• Don't you believe in me, is also a question, tempered with sadness..
• you don't believe in me, is an accusation with a feeling of rejection.

So what I am trying to say is that his exact words are important when coming to a conclusion....

Edit

I am not trying to be big and clever but in my job syntax is everything..