Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton
- Thread starter Brogan
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You've lost me Jen. I understand the better car bit, but are you suggesting McLaren need "bloody-minded" drivers to succeed. And yes, I had to look up "bloody-minded" and this is the definition I'm going off "stubbornly obstructive and unwilling to cooperate".
I'm somewhat intrigued by this notion.
I'm somewhat intrigued by this notion.
KekeTheKing, just suggesting that Webber (particularly) and Vettel work to their own agenda, that was all. I think Hamilton and Button are a bit less strident in their own defence and ideals.
The nuances of the English language - that is the basic meaning of bloody-minded, but not the common interpretation.
The nuances of the English language - that is the basic meaning of bloody-minded, but not the common interpretation.
I thought that was what you were getting at. I guess I was just surprised because I cannot even imagine the ration of shit that Lewis would receive if he took a more "me-first" attitude.
You may be onto something though. It's entirely possible that the years of intense scrutiny have worn Hamilton down to a point where he's lost that ruthless edge off the track. And it's hard to blame him. Anything remotely perceived to be selfish is immediately pounced upon and the "spoiled brat" accusations are thrown around with reckless abandon.
I've no doubt that if/when he gets a team fully behind him as a #1, we will finally be allowed to see him flourish again. The sooner the better!
You may be onto something though. It's entirely possible that the years of intense scrutiny have worn Hamilton down to a point where he's lost that ruthless edge off the track. And it's hard to blame him. Anything remotely perceived to be selfish is immediately pounced upon and the "spoiled brat" accusations are thrown around with reckless abandon.
I've no doubt that if/when he gets a team fully behind him as a #1, we will finally be allowed to see him flourish again. The sooner the better!
It's all in how you do it - the 'me first' attitude that is.
No one has ever assumed that Webber wasn't capable of fighting his own corner - which he seems to be doing to admirable effect - and we have all been told that Vettel is a 'nice guy' in public, but a whole different animal when amongst the team.
Button and Hamilton have always wanted to be loved by everyone, it would seem, and now need to impress upon their team that they are only as good as the car allows. So a bit more private steel wouldn't go amiss - a team is nothing without its drivers and it is about time they both made that clear.
No one has ever assumed that Webber wasn't capable of fighting his own corner - which he seems to be doing to admirable effect - and we have all been told that Vettel is a 'nice guy' in public, but a whole different animal when amongst the team.
Button and Hamilton have always wanted to be loved by everyone, it would seem, and now need to impress upon their team that they are only as good as the car allows. So a bit more private steel wouldn't go amiss - a team is nothing without its drivers and it is about time they both made that clear.
KekeTheKing, it was a comparative.
And, yes, I do believe that both are a little wary of losing their fan base - they do what is necessary to keep the UK fan involved.
McLaren could have been more forth coming with their support and Hamilton could forget the media and fight it out in the motor-home, which has far more effect, perhaps - who knows?
I just write what I see and have no particular allegiances.
And, yes, I do believe that both are a little wary of losing their fan base - they do what is necessary to keep the UK fan involved.
McLaren could have been more forth coming with their support and Hamilton could forget the media and fight it out in the motor-home, which has far more effect, perhaps - who knows?
I just write what I see and have no particular allegiances.
Maybe so, Chad Stewarthill - but one usually brings the other!
I'm not sure I understand the sudden comparison with Redbull. They have a genius of a designer who brings a clear sense of direction and focus.If their performance over the past 3races is anything to go by they should be running away with the Championship again but we know this is not the case. When the car is fundamentally very fast variation in driving styles is easily accomodated and the penalties for choosing different setups are not great (Rubens and Jenson achieved it in the Brawn and so did Jenson/Lewis in the first half of 010). On the other hand when you are desperate for performance and don't seem to understand how the tyres are behaving then driver feedback effectively drives development direction. I'm certain if you put Lewis and Jenson in that Redbull it would be a non contest.
Exactly. There is a lot of talk around Mclaren taking the wrong direction focusing on Button or Button being too sensitive. Actually the only problem they really have is that they need a car as good as the Red Bull, one where it doesn't matter who is driving it. So for me all this talk on them focusing on Button is a red herring. They need a car that can work in all conditions, then both drivers will be able to bring it home in a decent position.
They don't have an Adrian Newey and it's unlikely they'll find Redbull type performance advantage anytime soon. Everything was fine until Jenson's sudden slump and in their attempts to rescue him they were definitely guilty of diverting too much attention and resources towards him. Hamilton expressed surprise at returning to the factory after Canada to find all the top engineers gathered scrutinizing data between both drivers to get to the bottom of Jenson's dire performance in the race. He goes on to say that " a lot of work has gone on for Jenson's car". I'm also sure a new rear suspension configuration was developed to help him overcome his inability to bring rears up to temperature. I've mentioned it before that Webber had similar issues last year and I don't recall Redbull going down the same route.These have all been discussed a few pages back(Page 72 onwards).
Just what resources have McLaren been putting in towards Button? Has the whole of the design team stopped all other work?
Don't Red Bull make Webber a slightly different chassis to accommodate the extra weight he carries over Vettel? They certainly did in either 2011 or 2010 or both. Of course this is not continuous development as the chassis is designed and homologised before the start of the season.
So McLaren introduce a load of updates at Hockenheim and it is the first race this season in which Button out qualifies Hamilton (Hamilton's DSQ notwithstanding).
Are we therefore to deduce that the car has swung back towards Button?
This weekend should give us a better idea, especially if it's dry, as it usually is.
Are we therefore to deduce that the car has swung back towards Button?
This weekend should give us a better idea, especially if it's dry, as it usually is.
I saw Lewis bog down at the start... Webber nipped in front of him... and then Lewis lost 3 or 4 places later in that lap or early in the second lap... and then a lap or so later he was back on Webbers gearbox and would have mowed him down into the hairpin but for the puncture... I have no doubt that Lewis would have been up with Button hunting RBR and Ferrari...
This weekend, if dry, will give us a better picture...
This weekend, if dry, will give us a better picture...
off my post 
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