Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[ExtremeNinja]

They started from the same baseline setup Bill Boddy, nothing more and nothing less. They would have diverged at some point. You are ignoring the driver differential too. The driver input through both the pedals and the steering wheel is very different. Jenson had the use of DRS for much more of the race, too.

Basically, you are oversimplifying things.

 

[Mephistopheles]

There is nothing simple about F1

 

[Bill Boddy]

Button did not have the advantage of DRS in sector one.

If driver input is so important and Hamilton is so much better than Button then if the two setups are the same Hamilton will have faster top speeds than Button.

So why did Button finish up with a low downforce setup when he was saying that there was a lack of grip?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I didn't say Hamilton is much better than Button. You just said that. Please don't put words into my mouth. If I wanted to say that, I would have said it.

Back to the matter in hand. There are many many variables which can lead to speed differentials at different turns, straights and combined whole sectors around the track. Downforce is just one of them. Corner entry speed, corner exit speed, front grip, rear grip, traction, gear ratios, driving style, throttle application, engine mode, track position. The list is virtually endless.

 

[f1fansp]

I think it's difficult to glean too much from such numbers. JB was faster in Intermediate 1 by 5kph, with 5kph then covering the rest of the field. Seems more likely related to an anomaly ?tow/slipstream/overtake/late brake - any number.
You could pick any number of similar observations: MSC fastest in speed trap @ 320, but lower down on the Intermediate speeds.
If you look at the speedtraps, LH 316 vs JB 310, which is more suggestive of a higher downforce set-up.
Yet in Qualifying, speedtrap speeds were identical at 318.0 vs 317.9.
Personally, that seems a more reliable guage of speed set-up (wing/gearing) due to similar tyres/time/fuel loads.

 

[downforce]

I didn't say Hamilton is much better than Button. You just said that. Please don't put words into my mouth. If I wanted to say that, I would have said it.

Back to the matter in hand. There are many many variables which can lead to speed differentials at different turns, straights and combined whole sectors around the track. Downforce is just one of them. Corner entry speed, corner exit speed, front grip, rear grip, traction, gear ratios, driving style, throttle application, engine mode, track position. The list is virtually endless.

Don't bring me into it.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I didn't.

[EDIT] Ah. see what you did there.. Palm => Face

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

lewmp4 / KekeTheKing... count me as a fellow Fox sufferer... what hacks me off more than most is not only are we subjected to a barrage of adverts, we also lose close to 3 laps I reckon from the commentators trying to "explain" F1 to the general American population... so in the middle of a pitstop sequence, we get a Nascar "recap" of the top three drivers whilst the action is coming thick and fast all around... ....the Canada race was such a farce... even Valencia... first ad break 4/57... returns 7/57...

Overall I think JB had a pretty good weekend compared to Lewis... completed the race, scored some points, managed to avoid being a bit of a Pastor on lap 1 and not binning it or getting binned and having some serious questions asked of not only his set-up but also his state of mind...

 

[teabagyokel]

If a TV channel can be so misguided to appoint Piers Morgan as a "soccer" expert, then there is no hope for them.

 

[cider_and_toast]

If a TV channel can be so misguided to appoint Piers Morgan Moron as a "soccer" expert, then there is no hope for them.

Fixed that for you.

 

[FB]

If a TV channel can be so misguided to appoint Piers Morgan Moron, then there is no hope for them

That looks even better

 

[Il_leone]

since China apart from Spain where Hamilton was sent to the back of the grid because of team error and Canada where it has always been Hamilton's track... Mclaren have been woefully off the pace... Red Bull keep moving forward

 

[Quintessentially]

It seems to me they are running a very aggressive setup to compensate for the lack of downforce hence the reason they keep chewing their tyres. Hamilton said it himself that he even had to make some guesses with his setup at Valencia. It doesn't sound like an organised and orderly approach to me and unless their planned upgrades deliver the expected performance at Silvertsone they will be up shits creek with a Sam Michael shaped trolley.

 

[Quintessentially]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Can-Lewis-Hamilton-Jenson-Button-survive.html

 

[FB]

Wow, a well balanced piece of journalism form the Daily Mail

 

[Viscount]

Alonso probably gave him that wide brimmed, 'Ferrari red' cap with his car no. 5 on.

 

[Quintessentially]

Smoothie..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18669094

 

[ExtremeNinja]

WTF!

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/jenson-button-vs-lewis-hamilton.4734/page-76#post-137249

 

[The Pits]

ExtremeNinja, but Gary puts it so much better than you, and he's famous, and he has linked to the community from the BBC website. Sorry chap, no contest!!!

 

[Il_leone]

Quintessentially

Gary has a point and this has always been Button's weakness in that he has a very narrow range of peak performance when the car is not to his liking which is what happened in 2009 when the Brawn was geared towards Rubens a bit more.

Button can't drive around problems like Alonso or Hamilton but it is magnified this season due to the extreme narrow operating temperature of Pirelli tyres... I should add Schumacher complained a few races before so Button is not in the minority

For Button its not good but for the whole of F1 it has been great that teams like Sauber, Williams and Force India have been able to get into the mix ...

Its the same tyres for everyone so they all have to cope..unfortunately Button is not coping as well at this moment