Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[sushifiesta]

Personally, I think it's because the criticisms of Lewis over the years have been far too extreme, many people seem to love to hate him. This makes fans of Lewis highly defensive, and so naturally when people start trying to put Jenson on the same pedestal as him sparks begin to fly.

 

[The Artist.....]

sushifiesta - if you think Hamilton has had a lot of criticism, you should see what Button's put up with over the years - "Button will never win a podium, will never get a pole position, will never win a race, will never win another race, will never win the championship, will get blown away by Hamilton at McLaren" etc etc etc....

 

[sushifiesta]

I don't think Jenson ever incited such strong emotions across a large range of people from across the globe in his first couple of years in F1. Jenson's had his critics, no doubt, but the controversies surrounding Hamilton over such a short time period come close to matching those of any driver in the history of F1. I think it makes Lewis fans feel backed in to a corner, and then the tendency is to lash out at anything that comes nearby.

This is all just my opinion, of course.

 

[Bill Boddy]

racecub not only does Button have access to all Hamilton's data, Hamilton also has access to all Button's data. They are together in a team, almost all the teams use the same system.

The engineers work where they are needed. Should half of them sit around doing nothing when they could be working for the good of the team?

 

[Mephistopheles]

I have seen more bile spat at Jenson than just about any other driver I just don't understand why, and when he is not on top form it just seems to get worse, other drivers used to get it as well namely Damon Hill, people used to trash him something rotten I just wonder if it is just a British thing to try and bring people down and then to kick the crap out of them when they do so.?

There are people from other countries who post on this site, so I ask them, is that what the Brits are best at, slagging off anyone who does well for themselves and refusing to see the equality in achievement?

And I ask the Brits is that how you want the rest of the world to see us?

Why not enjoy F1 and have done with it and cut out the bitching about people/drivers that for some reason only known to yourselves you have taken a dislike too..

I'm not talking about the "Oh no not the finger again" stuff I'm talking about the insidious, sickening pure nastiness that sometimes occurs.

Just rise above it surely you are better than that?

Be joyous in victory and be magnanimous in times hardship or defeat, is that too much to ask?

 

[racecub]

Bill Boddy I don't thnik Hamilton really wants any of Button's data. Re the engineers; No non should sit around doing nothing but it would be nice if they were shared out equally, both drivers need their valuable expertise.
Mephistopheles I think the Brits (and especially Brit media) do have a tendancy to kick out at the successful and support the underling. Lewis has had unprecedented criticssm in his F1 carreer and of the recent F1 drivers from Britain he is the one with talent to become a true great.On the backlash of all this hamilton criticism fans bristle at the easy ride Button is given by the press and his team when he is lauded as hamilton's equal or superior and the excuses made for him when his driving is not up to par.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Mephistopheles

Why do you think people hate Jenson? I have not noticed this. I have seen some fanatical Hamilton fans on here and elsewhere that wish to see him sidelined so thier main man can get absolute support from the McLaren team but have not seen any indication of hate.

I personally quite like him. He doesn't flick my switches or particularly garner my interest but he seems a nice enough chap.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I give up! no honestly I do I have tried to understand, why this thread exists in the terms of the fans that post here, and now I realise I am wasting my time, my first instinct not to post has been validated racecub you believe that Lewis is superior in some way, ExtremeNinja not so many posts ago you were stating Jenson for some of his radio communications with his pit crew,

Sometimes I wish they didn't broadcast pit radio as 95 percent of them seem to be from Jenson, I'm sure all the other drivers are saying the exact same things as he is, after all they aren't calling the pits to say to their engineers, "Hi how are you today, hows the kids"? Oh my end yeah no probs everything is hunky dory with my car I don't know what that berk Button is complaining about, yeah |'ll meet you for a cuppa In the hotel after I drive this perfect driving machine around for a bit. No I'm buying, bye bye bye no you hang up first. x x x x

There is only one reason for this thread to exist on this very good and normally well balanced forum, and that is to have somewhere for people to revel in slating Jenson (And for some to slate Lewis) and in so doing it stops it from contaminating the rest of the forum and for that reason I salute it, it is doing what it was created for, and quite successfully I may add...

I do not understand this behaviour and I don't think I ever will...

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Eh? Mephistopheles. I take no revelry in slating any man. Jibeing maybe, but no more than I would any of my brothers. If somebody turns up for work late everyday with the same excuse, then its going to get picked up on. If that person takes a lot of time off, they may get nicknamed "sick-note" or the like. I can see why you think some might be ribbing the chap for thier own amusement, but generally I think you are being a little over-sensitive.

You can't keep sayin "I've got no grip, I've got no grip" repetitively and not expect to be knocked for it. Get some bloody grip. It's there. Find it.

I hope he does. Most of us have a driver that we support primarily. All drivers have thier highs and lows. You're not driving the car and I don't suspect you have a financial investment and so if you find yourself riding the lows with him then your emotional investment is probably more than it ought to be.

 

[Mephistopheles]

ExtremeNinja Maybe it is but then maybe you should read my edit first I read your thread about Karting and I am really glad you are enjoying yourself so I thought you would at least know how hard racing can be sometimes, he has won a WDC surely that deserve at least the tiniest bit of respect.

In Canada it wasn't about grip it was about him destroying his tyres after two or three laps, does that sound like a driver who is supposedly easy on his tyres to you?

Turning up late for work is hardly in the same post code is it and labelling someone when all you ever hear is their radio and nobody else's is entirely unfair and not in the least bit justified..

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I do respect him. You are imagining it if you think I don't.

You can only be easy on your tyres if you have grip. Last years cars were more aero dependant and the grip was pretty much always there. This year it is more about mechanical grip with the removal of the blown diffuser. You have to work the tyres rather than be delicate with them. If you don't work them they don't operate and they don't give back to you. There is a difference between being easy on tyres and getting the most out of them. This year it is much more about interaction than linear consumption. Before blown diffusers it was double diffusers which the brawn enjoyed ahead of its competitors.

With regards to my "turning up for work" metaphor which you have commented on, I think you misunderstand me. It is an example of human nature rather than specifically Jenson's driving. I am refering to the response rather than the catalyst.

Yes. Racing is tough. In the indoor karts I now expect to succeed. In fact, I expect to thrash my competitors. Having stepped up, I now expect to do badly but strive to do well. I do race in equal machinery though and I never expect to go backwards. It's comparable to an extent, but I race spec karts and don't have the luxury or hindrance of setup.

 

[Mephistopheles]

So you don't accept that yours and others perceptions of his so called complaining to the pits of balance or not having grip is based on the fact that only his radio communications get broadcast to the British viewers?

And yet you do think that Canada and some other races this year is the true representation of his abilities compared to Lewis, and not the previous two full seasons at McLaren?

So obviously Jenson is at least 2 or maybe 4 seconds a lap slower in race trim than Lewis, to be honest I'm surprised McLaren haven't got rid of him and replaced him with Clyde the baboon.

Some Lewis fans seem to have a very short memory, very short indeed...

 

[Mephistopheles]

Anyway I am bored of this now, I don't write on this forum to belittle other people or the drivers they support I do it for a bit of fun and being on this thread is not fun, in any way, shape or form...

 

[riskitall]

interesting article here http://www.worldcarfans.com/112062345672/hamilton-cheery-or-cheesed-off-as-button-copies-setup

 

[racecub]

Mephistopheles Yes I think lewis is the superior driver.
My memory(as a Lewis fan) is not so short. I remember Jenson being lauded as the tyre expert, as the team leader, as someone Lewis should learn from, as the set up expert. Its somewhat ironic that he now has to use lewis set up, cant work the tyres and has led the team down a blind ally on set up. Its understandable in the light of things like that, that Jenson now gets some ribbing.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Mephistopheles

Once again, I think you are being far too serious about this. However, to answer your question, I think that this season is a much better indication of Jenson's range of abilities rather than the quality of his abilities. There is no doubting the quality of what Jenson can do when the conditions are right for him. Those conditions being various combinations of the weather, the technical regulations, the nature of the tyres, etc. etc. All things that can contribute to him having a car he can feel a part of.

If we compare the drivers over the last three seasons that they have been paired, what is evident is that Lewis excels in a wider range of circumstances. That said, Lewis is clearly more emotionally fragile than Jenson which is something that has also been a big factor into the outcome of events on race weekends. In terms of pure driving driving ability, however, I think Lewis can operate within a wider range. This is in fact a pretty well understood and subscribed appraisal that up until last year even Jenson believed. However, he enjoyed a car which suited him last year and a teammate that was suffering with his mental game. This year, with the change of regulations and the strengthened mental approach of Lewis, Jenson is having a bit of a reality check.

This isn't me blowing smoke up Lewis' arse or knocking Jenson but simply my honest appraisal - and I do try to be as balanced as possible. I don't say this because I am a Lewis Hamilton fan, but the opposite. It is my appraisal of respective talents that brings me to support Lewis over Jenson, but I believe them both to be very talented drivers and worthy world champions.

If I have a little dig at Jenson every now and then, it is no more than I do Lewis on average. Of course, there's not much to rib Lewis about at the moment but I was extremely critical of him last year.

 

[F1ang-o]

riskitall
I have said 'like' to your post, to acknowledge that I have read it, wished there were other options.........

 

[Fenderman]

Correct me if I am wrong but Kimi did pass Lewis did he not. Maybe he had to fight for it but that is racing and it is supposed to be F1 not Mario Kart. Oh, and what does that have to do with Button vs Lewis?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

A race of mixed fortune for the McLaren boys. Jenson scores minor points after a crap race and the benefit of others misfortune in front. I doubt he'll be happy with that. Lewis drives an absolutely blinding race, suffers a terrible pitstop and then gets taken out by Maldonado in his Williams battering ram.

 

[The Pits]

ExtremeNinja I think that you are right about the mixed fortunes for the McLaren boys, but I think that Jenson was in reasonable shape before the safety car, but lost out, as his close rivals were able to pit under the safety car, and come out ahead, whereas without the safety car, they may not have. As for Lewis, I seem to recall him having an incident, but I'm not sure, maybe I should have a rummage round see what I can uncover....