Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[RasputinLives]

I think Cook presents his belifs very clearly but they are not always countered by sound arguement. And the bit Ive highlighted is exactly what Cook has done, he has reviewed the facts and stats, refined his position and changed the way he thinks

Oh Cook is a skilled writer who expresses himself very clearly thats never been my issue. Unfourtunatly Cook also has the undying belief that he is completely right on this subject and will not budge. Lewis Hamilton himself could post on here to say there is nothing amiss and in fact him and Martin Whitmarsh have a secret pact to let Jenson think he's as good as him before blowing him out the water and Cook would find a very effective way to break down his post and put across very effective arguments as to why the whole thing isn't true and how he was right. He might even get Lewis believing it.

What frustrates people massively on here is that Cook likes to stir the pot somewhat and wave a red flag at the bull(such as 'Button was a mobile chicane in 2008') to watch people chase their tails around logic trying to disprove a theory that can never be disproved. I know there are those that like to do this in reverse too so I'm not singling him out. He knows deep down he can never prove his theory correct either but whilst he can stand there and say 'go on disprove it' knowing we can't it doesn't matter. The turth is we're probably never going to know whats behind Mclaren's erratic pit stratergies and whether Lewis and Jenson get on and what goes on in the head of Martin Whitmarsh as we're just random internet people.

I just think he's better than that and shouldn't bother but whatever floats your boat.

But I do hope all of you on this thread know this the question of who is better Lewis or Jenson will never be answered because its a subjective opinion. Unless you have the luxuary of becoming one of the inner circle in Mclaren you will never find an anwser on whether there is driver preference in the team. it will never be answered. Personally I don't believe there is but if you go looking for conspiracy in the facts you'll find conspiracy. I will argue with anyone who suggests that either driver is anything less than a world beater and that there is a massive gap between the two - whichever way its argued!

The great thing about this is - none of us really has a clue as to which one is going to come out on top this season. Awesome.

 

[racecub]

Well I do agree with some things you say...and disagree with others, but your post did make me giggle

 

[Quintessentially]

Hamilton really doesn't like driving with a heavily fuelled car and he doesn't seem as comfortable on pirellis. :

I think there's plenty of demonstrable evidence of Hamilton being exceptionally good with a full tank of fuel. At the risk of reigniting this hackneyed 'Hamilton is too hard on his tyres' sentiment, I'm not sure what you mean by "not comfortable", as Malaysia would suggest otherwise despite a seemingly cautious approach. As far as tyres go, only one McLaren driver has publicly aired his issues with them and it's not Hamilton.

 

[Hamberg]

Apologies I meant not 'as' comfortable on full tank and pirellis as with refuelling and Bridgestone. I think he may be finding his formula this season though better than the others.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Hamberg

why have I directed my post at you?

errrm, maybe because you purported to represent a large section of members who were tired of me forcing them to hear my opinion and making them respond. I notice that you have deleted the part from your post where you declared that you 'spoke for everyone'
Never mind, thats the benefit of being a contributor, the ability to change the meaning of our posts later, when the context and its relevance are forgotten
Transcripts are not absolute proof, otherwise there would be no argument, like I said its a small part of my 'body of evidence' that underpins my opinion,
JB vs LH, opposite characters, both top drivers, game on!

RasputinLives
I don't see this as trouble, forums are not a popularity contest or for finding friends, that's a chat room, discussions, learning exchanging views is great, disagreements are part of life, we don't fall out cos we didn't agree on something, next time round we might be on the same side of the fence as allies as we heve done before

 

[Vortex]

Sometimes, less is more!

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Sometimes less is less!

 

[ecclestoned]

Sometimes, less is more!

Sometimes less is less!

Both statements are absolutely right,more or less.
Now that's how you quote:you take 2 contradictory small posts,quote them both and say something stupid about them that cannot be disproven

 

[Hamberg]

Hamberg

why have I directed my post at you? errrm, maybe because you purported to represent a large section of members who were tired of me forcing them to hear my opinion and making them respond. I notice that you have deleted the part from your post where you declared that you 'spoke for everyone'

No I didn't, that's your paranoid way of interpreting it. Now where have I seen that before

like I said its a small part of my 'body of evidence' that underpins my opinion,

That's the problem, the small part doesn't seem to exist

 

[Bullet190]

One thing that did interest me in the last race was the way Hamilton or/and his engineers made a very late decision to pit for tires when he just was behind Button. It was so late the pit crew were only just running out when he was entering the pit lane. Anyone think this was just to keep the other teams in the dark ? Or was it also to keep Jenson's side in the dark too ?

 

[Hamberg]

It's the same pit crew for both though isn't it?

 

[The Artist.....]

. Anyone think this was just to keep the other teams in the dark ? Or was it also to keep Jenson's side in the dark too ?

At the time, it seemed to me that it was a late call - and I think the transcripts from the race suggested that on one of his stops LH made the call- I suspect he just felt he needed new tyres!

 

[Cookinflatsix]

That's the problem, the small part doesn't seem to exist

I understand the McLaren policy but it baffles me somewhat as we frequently saw (particularly with Button) last season a difference in pit stop strategy. However this was often due to such different positions I guess. If both drivers want to come in on the same lap - fine, but Sunday appeared to me that Button and/or his crew decided Hamilton's strategy.

 

[Hamberg]

I don't get your point?

 

[The Artist.....]

He's suggesting you're being inconsistent with your point of view... It's the usual taking advantage of a small piece of out of context evidence and using that as 'general' proof!

 

[Cookinflatsix]

position B) The operational process at McLaren is geared towards managing the two drivers as one unit with two facets, instead of two competing units. This has lead to a situation where in the instances that the actual race deviates from pre programmed strategythe driver with special needs tends to get the more straightforward option as the other driver is less fussy about conditions and setup, unintentional but side effect is LH has disadvantage on balance in his struggle vs JB (the team win as they get more points)

but Sunday appeared to me that Button and/or his crew decided Hamilton's strategy

If it appeared to you like that, then your integrity might be in question if you turn around and say my opinion is completely unfounded

take your time, Im happy to drop this as I need to get some more work done today than yesterday, but if you want to carry on dont moan later that you are tired of 'hearing my opinion'

 

[Hamberg]

Oh right!
There's me thinking he was responding to my post. Silly me

 

[Hamberg]

Okay, firstly, what I said doesn't match your theory B at all.
Secondly, the issue is that you bang on about the same theory everytime Button beats Hamilton for as long as they've been team mates - I was talking about one incident on one day
Thirdly - Don't recall using the term 'completely unfounded'. What I have said is that you make your point, but you make it again and again and again and again and again and again, so much so you start to believe evidence does exist! By the very nature of me using the words 'baffled' and 'seemed' suggests that I too had no evidence and speculated.

*Edit* Come back all you like Cook, quite frankly I'm bored and this isn't even discussing F1 so I won't be responding.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

No need for me to come back
Just to make sure we part as friends and there is no misunderstanding 'the same theory' as you put it has evolved and developed over time from conspiracy etc to position B

It was my position B that was challenged and rubbished, I havent changed my mind

 

[RickD]

The problem Cook is that your 'position B' (substance X etc) isn't even a theory as a theory is backed by evidence, it is simply a hypothesis, which is a position based on opinion with no relation to evidence or fact.

This is the reason people are asking you to produce some evidence. I for one do not see your POV and am rightly asking for evidence to make your opinion into a theory, you have consistently failed to produce this evidence and just keep banging on about the same thing again and again. That is not a discussion, it is a pointless tirade of accusations and counter accusations. When you can produce some evidence to support you hypothesis, please feel free to post it as I and I am sure many others here would be very interested to see it.

In the meantime, good luck to you.