Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[Bill Boddy]

bill boddy,lewis closed the gap to 2 seconds before he got stuck behind vettel,that allowed button to extend his lead to just over 5 seconds in the end.

Yes, that was after Button lost at least six seconds in his pit stop putting him in a queue of traffic that he would have otherwise avoided. Button was also held up by Vettel if you remember, but once Raikkonene was out of the way Button was soon past Vettel as opposed to Hamilton who found it harder despite Vettel's tyres falling right off.

 

[Jen]

Just teasing, Viscount

For all their protestations, McLaren aren't the most even of employers IMO.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

wot viscount said

Viscount, you are absolutely right to ponder that line of thought. F1 has a history of teams doing the best for the team at the detriment of one or even both drivers.

But be careful though any mention of LH, and you could get descended upon and committed to an asylum for suggesting that he could ever be on the receiving end of any thing other than altruistic intentions

best you don't think those thoughts in public and try fit in with the sensible status quo manifesto, but you are save on here because we are all mostly sensible and open to debate and speculation

 

[RickD]

I have a question, prior to Button's arrival at McLaren we had the driver pairings of Hamilton and Kovalainen and before that Alonso and Hamilton. Now McLaren have always claimed to give both their drivers equal treatment, but do people believe that in those previous driver pairings from 2007 to 2009 that both of their drivers were consistently given equal opportunities?

I would say that prior to Buttons arrival, there was a year of inequal treatment, that being 2008. This was after Kovi was soundly thrashed and Lewis proved he was McLarens best hope for a championship. Whether this was down to car design is hard to say, but Heikki could not seem to get used to the car. As for 2007, the drivers were given equal treatment, to the detriment of the championship and even to the point of a $100 million fine. The reasons for this fine we do not need to go into here, but the treatment was beyond fair for their drivers, its just one of them didn't stick to the agreement in place at the time.

I think it is also fair now with Buttons arrival as he has proven he has the speed to keep up with Lewis over a race distance and as an ex-WDC, he has a right to demand and expect equal treatment, same as Lewis does.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

and also help you communicate your beliefs better. Plus, you never know, if you bother to look at the stats and facts snip/ you might discover something new that might change the way you think.

Isn't that why most of get involved in debates on forums?

This doesn't make much sense mad monk

this is how it works, I say LH has had worse service since JB arrived, enough people agree to generate a discussion, I give a theory as to why this is

Someone who doesn't accept the premise then challenges it and provides his evidence (in this case the stats)

 

[RickD]

This doesn't make much sense mad monk

this is how it works, I say LH is seeing pink elves, enough people agree to generate a discussion, I give a theory as to why this is

Someone who doesn't accept the premise then challenges it and provides his evidence (in this case the stats)

There you go, fixed that for you Cook.

Can you see how ridiculous that statement is? Saying what you think without evidence to support your viewpoint does not make a discussion..

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

I don't need statistics or proof to tell me that LH has been disadvantaged on average and has had worse service since JB arrived, this is my observation and subjective opinion and belief,

LH had, until JB, never had a team mate who beat him over season...
Like SV, LH has never driven a crap F1 car... is still a youngster... and despite being well balanced (with oversize hip hop artist diamond studs in each ear), has time to grow up...

JB (a lot like MW did to SV in 2010) can get into your head... knows how to do it... loves to do it... JB is the smiling assassin... love his work...

imho, a team will naturally gravitate to a driver who can finish and improve... compared to the driver that bins it 2 of every 3 races... like any job, you are here to perform... simply look at this season... LH this season has done a great job up until now... he hasn't got the results he wanted (but that is no different to the other seven or so drivers who thought they could realistically win as well)... but he is dealing with that a lot better... and he has finished each race in strong positions... JB might have the edge in race pace / strategy right now... but still early days...

 

[RasputinLives]

This doesn't make much sense mad monk

this is how it works, I say LH has had worse service since JB arrived, enough people agree to generate a discussion, I give a theory as to why this is

Someone who doesn't accept the premise then challenges it and provides his evidence (in this case the stats)

So basically you can say anything and you're right until proven wrong without having to back it up with anything?

I hope you're not a Judge Cook.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Rick

respectfully, are you an adult?

no evidence?

you reckon people discussing LH and his frequent issues with pitstops and strategies is comparable to pink elves?

Do you know how many commentators, journalists and F1 fans have mentioned this JB vs LH situation

Lets all pretend we are in the night garden for a minute

So someone says 'I believe in pink elves' do you think any discussion would be joined? anyone could say, there has never been an incident in history af a documented sighting of a pink elf, discussion over

So someone says LH has had worse service than JB, LH himself has been reported to have sat down with the team to discuss, this year alone we have LH having more issues and problems than JB lets discuss, you then turn to childish remarks and start throwing insults around?

If you cant disprove my theory which you obviously dont have a rats chance of doing then kindly resist responding to me on this subject

So heres your chance, Rick, JB has had better strategy options than LH this year so far can you disprove that?

So basically you can say anything and you're right until proven wrong without having to back it up with anything?

:big yawn:

judges do 'innocent till proven guilty' the prosecution (or persecution in some cases) have to provide evidence, no? so I think you just fell flat on your face mate

I have provided lots of 'evidence' which of course is restricted to my observations and what info is publically available, you have recently spent time berating me for using selected facts, and being subjective and cherry picking, but you have not got round to disproving anything, just making judgements on my motivations and mental setup

now you find it funny to decide that I have provided nothing to back up my argument?

 

[Vortex]

MW is in love with LH!

Now someone… PROVE to me that this is not true.

 

[Porceliamone]

As it goes, it'd be nice if you actually provided the evidence for the vast majority of the statements in the above post to back up your assertion. Isn't that the general thrust here anyway? Baffling.

 

[Porceliamone]

Post above Vortex I mean...damn you Vortex for nicking my space!

 

[Vortex]

Point is it’s a billion, billion, billion and 42 times easier to prove something exits than not. Take aliens, one day we may prove they exit but I doubt we will ever prove they don’t exist somewhere.

 

[Vortex]

Porceliamone

 

[Cookinflatsix]

@ porceliamone

What exactly are you talking about?

evidence for what?

Vortex
we will never proove aliens dont exist somewhere, so whats that gotta do with JB getting better service than LH,

Ok lets play a kiddies game

I say: 'the radio transcripts in the second last race suggests to me that JB gets more info and better service on strategy calls than LH'

You say: a) no, i will disprove tht statement by ..... or B) pink elves exist on the moon or not so lets talk about that and then bust opur arms clapping ourselves on the back at how witty we are'

take your time chaps

 

[Vortex]

If you cant disprove my theory which you obviously dont have a rats chance of doing then kindly resist responding to me on this subject

So heres your chance, Rick, JB has had better strategy options than LH this year so far can you disprove that?

China?

 

[RasputinLives]

No Cook - I find it funny that you have this debating malarkie the wrong way round. You've started that once you have stated a theory that it is correct until it is disporved which is completely wrong. A theory is just a theory until it is proved correct. My crack about the judge is because if your logic was applied to the courts everyone would be guilty until proven innocent.

Also please not that your own opinion does not count as evidence - it is an opinion - you may believe it is correct and in fact it may very well be correct but without evidence it is merely an opinion. No wonder you have problems on here.

So to conclude you have presented us with lots of theories as to why Lewis is being mistreated over Jenson and in turn many of us have presented our own opinions that this isn't true. Just because none of us have presented hard facts to prove it once and for all either way does not mean because you said it first you are correct. Once again innocent until proven guilty.

I happen to think that Bruno Senna is a useless twonk but I can't claim it to be fact.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

mad monk,

Ok, my opinions are just that, opinions, subjective and shaped by bias and my interpretation of the facts available
we can discuss all day, you can have your opinion also, we dont have to agree

so far so good

this particular partie has come about because you recently injected the requirement for me to provide hard facts

and also help you communicate your beliefs better. Plus, you never know, if you bother to look at the stats and facts snip/
Isn't that why most of get involved in debates on forums?

and now you are trying to explain what an opinion is, have you seen my signature

you really are crazy, mad monk

 

[Viscount]

RickD Though I do think there were races in 2007 where Alonso was favoured and vice versa where Hamilton was, I agree that the fact that they tried to give them equal treatment for the most part was the detriment to their championship. So I think they would've learnt from that and being in a similar situation again with 2 competitive drivers who should be in contention for the title this year they might manage their drivers differently this time round.

 

[RasputinLives]

Then why say earlier you don't need to look at stats and figures to know something? and whats this whole something is true until proven false thing?

You call me crazy. I know you're smarter than that Cook.