Journalists are not insiders. They are outsiders. They are observers. They have more access to insiders than we do, but insiders they are not.
Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton
- Thread starter Brogan
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I remember both Brundle and Coulthard saying that the driver has the final word in whether or not he comes in for a pit stop. The driver is the one on the track, he knows how the car feels and what he can do in any set of conditions. Hamilton said he felt comfortable but you seem to be saying that he is not capable of making that decision. I wouldn't say that in his hearing if I were you.
It's the way McLaren work, the leader of th pair gets the first stop. Don't balme Button for that.[/quote]
Which ones would those be?
All the drivers need to be part of a team. How on earth do you make it out to be that he was saying that he was the number 1 in the McLaren team (as opposed to his race team)?
I must say that I haven't seen that. Have you a reference?
I watched the Whitmarsh interview after the Malaysian GP, he spoke for the same amount of time about both drivers and did not say anything that could be construed as favouring one or the other.
If you say so. But what has it got to do with the subject of "Jenson Button v Lewis Hamilton"?
To be honest, the jump from journalist to insider is no more a leap than the jump from
"Button’s sensitivity to the car’s microbehaviour has probably played its part in how the team looks to him more than Hamilton for set-up/development direction through a race weekend. Whenever there is a divergence of opinion on Friday over which direction to follow, the team invariably follows Button’s preference probably secure in the knowledge that Hamilton will be able to drive well regardless of the car’s traits, whereas Button loses more of his performance if the car is not exactly as he needs it
to
I would also like to point out that McLaren look at the moment to have the best car relative to the pack that they have had since 2007, and have steadily improved since the start of 2009, so the direction that they are working in would seem to be the right one, albeit a little behind where people think they should have been.
I agree with the trackside stuff, but the development side? When was the last time any team other than Red Bull gto 2 poles in a row? more to the point, 2 front row lockouts? If this is the result of a flawed design process, then I would love to see what McLaren could do when they fix it.
I hope Sam Michael can sort out the strategy issues, as along with many I am confounded by some of the decisions that are made. Admittedly, I do not have all the information that is available trackside, such as driver tracking, weather etc, but it does seem to be an achilles heel of the team.
That said, I find it really confusing to work out how/why a team who seem to have struggled for years, appearing to make the same mistakes repetitively cannot seem to do what needs to be done to rectify the situation. Any company in any business can ill afford to make years of poor judgements at the sharp end and they most certainly would not get away with it, and I would say the same for McLaren. So either these are new errors, McLaren are really incompetent (really?) or the decision making process is not as bad as we see, or as bad as we assume based on the results that it leads to.
I'm really not sure where I am on this at the moment, but I will keep an eye through the season, to see if Sam can improve matters.
"Button’s sensitivity to the car’s microbehaviour has probably played its part in how the team looks to him more than Hamilton for set-up/development direction through a race weekend. Whenever there is a divergence of opinion on Friday over which direction to follow, the team invariably follows Button’s preference probably secure in the knowledge that Hamilton will be able to drive well regardless of the car’s traits, whereas Button loses more of his performance if the car is not exactly as he needs it
to
Note the use of the word probably twice in the quote from Autosport.
I would also like to point out that McLaren look at the moment to have the best car relative to the pack that they have had since 2007, and have steadily improved since the start of 2009, so the direction that they are working in would seem to be the right one, albeit a little behind where people think they should have been.
I agree with the trackside stuff, but the development side? When was the last time any team other than Red Bull gto 2 poles in a row? more to the point, 2 front row lockouts? If this is the result of a flawed design process, then I would love to see what McLaren could do when they fix it.
I hope Sam Michael can sort out the strategy issues, as along with many I am confounded by some of the decisions that are made. Admittedly, I do not have all the information that is available trackside, such as driver tracking, weather etc, but it does seem to be an achilles heel of the team.
That said, I find it really confusing to work out how/why a team who seem to have struggled for years, appearing to make the same mistakes repetitively cannot seem to do what needs to be done to rectify the situation. Any company in any business can ill afford to make years of poor judgements at the sharp end and they most certainly would not get away with it, and I would say the same for McLaren. So either these are new errors, McLaren are really incompetent (really?) or the decision making process is not as bad as we see, or as bad as we assume based on the results that it leads to.
I'm really not sure where I am on this at the moment, but I will keep an eye through the season, to see if Sam can improve matters.
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
We shall see. I'm not sure where these suspicions are coming from so until I see or hear something from a credible source (that's not implying that you are not credible, by the way) I will hold off baking a hat shaped cake.
Lewywo4
Race Winner
Excuse my ignorance, but Fenderman or anybody else, who are or what is the....ICT?
Wombcat
Podium Finisher
Usually it mean Informations and Communications Technology.
In this case reliance on their computersystems and data-analysis.
Lewywo4
Race Winner
Lewywo4
Race Winner
My blood still boils to this day, whenever I see China and 07.
racecub
Champion Elect
Not in Malaysia. Three times the second placed driver of the pair got the first stop.
No sources, just a personal opinion, although Bernie did suggest back in February that both parties could part ways (article can be found through a simple Google search).
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
You mean like this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...ys-Formula-One-supremo-Bernie-Ecclestone.html
Bernie being his usual mischievously impish self before the season even kicked off. I wouldn't knock the man for business nous but ...
I shall correct what Bill said for him. The lead driver always gets the first option of a stop. For instance
"Lewis would you like to stop?"
"No thanks I'm gonna cover off those Red Bulls like you guys suggested"
"copy..........Jenson would you like to stop?"
"yes please these tyres are buggered and I need to make up some time in my second stint"
"copy......Lewis - Jenson is pitting are you ok?"
"I'm ok"
I'm not quite sure what the issue was because Lewis's pitstops would have all worked out for him if he hadn't been held up by the Ferrari double stack.
racecub
Champion Elect
Did you just make all that up? rather than read the pit transcripts as to what was really said? How about we make one up for the race in AustraliaLap 15
Lewis- "my tyres are shot i need to come in"
Pit- "Tough, manage."
Lap16 jenson pits
Lap 17
Pit-"ok Lewis you can pit now"
Hmmm, seems to me it was more like:
Edit, scratch that, this is how the last batch of messages went:
"Lewis stay out on these tyres."
"Jenson, the guys at the back are lapping 5 seconds a lap quicker, come in for new tyres."
Still, I guess we all see/hear what we want to.
http://cliptheapex.com/threads/jenson-button-vs-lewis-hamilton.4734/page-14#post-117777
Did that actually happen? Is this new information coming to light?
Cookinflatsix
Banned
The issue was that a McLaren 1-2 became a Mclaren 3-%$##$^
But seeing as we are all playing provocative, witty and funny, heres what I made out;
Pit, 'Lewis, you are in the lead and in control, everyone else will react to cover us off, so, the best thing to do considering all info we have is to come in right now for new tyres'
Lewis, 'you are the fellows with the Crays, on my way'
Pit, 'Jenson, the optimum and smart choice is new tyres, Lewis is on his way in, as the second place man, you come in straight after'
Jenson, 'are you sure, I want to assert my own strategic genius, can I try to keep going to discover exactly where the cliff is?
Pit, 'Ric is 3 full seconds faster than you, do you understand?
Jenson, 'please let me stay out 3 more laps and til everyone else on the track changes tyre'
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Sfunny, that's exactly what I expected from you, obfuscation and diversion from the topic under discussion
Could it be that "The rain is getting heavier, but it's okay. The car is aquaplaning in places, but it's okay" means "Can I pit please?"
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