I just did a search in Autosport for "Hamilton" and "insider". Alas, there were quite a lot of entries but nothing there that I could see that showed this. Never mind.
Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton
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I just did a search in Autosport for "Hamilton" and "insider". Alas, there were quite a lot of entries but nothing there that I could see that showed this. Never mind.
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
Indeed, one of the lessons from the past that I was alluding to. There are so many examples it would take a TeaBagYokel or a Galahad to list them all.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
You got me there Bill!
Mark Hughes is not described as an F1 insider anywhere in Autosport
But can you prove that he is not an F1 insider, privy to a bit more info than the casual F1 fan?
Unless you can then your point is sadly irrelevant
Mark Hughes is not described as an F1 insider anywhere in Autosport
But can you prove that he is not an F1 insider, privy to a bit more info than the casual F1 fan?
Unless you can then your point is sadly irrelevant
I know the quote Cookin is talking about, although he's dressed it up a bit like a carnival float, as is the norm. It's a Reliant Robin underneath.
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
With the benefit of both hindsight, and not being responsible for the strategic decisions which could cost millions of pounds of revenue, we may all be able to make better decisions than the McLaren pitwall. I think the question that should always be asked is why didn't EVERYONE pit on lap 38? I could see that the slicks were better (I could see that for a couple of laps before anyone stopped) - yet no-one had made the gamble. It's not just McLaren who waited, but McLaren, Ferrari, Sauber etc etc... Yes, LH should probably have stopped a couple of laps earlier, but then so should everyone. This wasn't a case of LH being kept out because Button was pitting - they showed in Melbourne that they could double shuffle when there was a gap of 10 seconds! This was a case that they believed that the best course of action was to keep LH out - in the hope that it might rain. When Vettel got into striking distance, they had to pit him to keep track position! The only sequence of events that would've given LH track position over Alonso was if he stayed out longer, it had started to rain, and he'd been able to make 1 stop from worn inters to new inters, whilst Alonso had made 2 stops, worn inter - new slicks - new inters... Since the rain didn't come, this wasn't workable!
During the first exchange Hamilton was asked how he felt about the conditions. He replied that they were not perfect but he could handle them. Button was then given the opportunity to pit, which he did. I see absolutely no favouritism there.
Then in the second exchange Hamilton is asked for his thoughts. His reply does not say that he wants to pit, so once again it was his choice.
In the third exchange Hamilton is told to pit. Was there any more radio chat before what is shown there?
So in at least two of the exchanges Hamilton is given a choice but does not take it, on both those occasions he made the wrong choice. But then that is only with the advantage of hindsight. Life is not always black and white.
Someone reposted full Autosport article Mark Hughes wrote on driving styles here:
http://f12011-setups.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/secrets-of-driving-styles-revealed.html
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
Hmm, maybe I should have kept my trap shut ... again.That would make for some sad reading.
Hindsight doesnt come into it. I don't know why you assumed that I didn't know that at the time. It was an easy call and all I had was a TV and an iPad with the live timing app on it.
As for being responsible for decisions which cost millions of pounds, perhaps they ought to just pay my Sky fee for me and give me a phone. ( OK there is some tongue in cheek here).
I never said Lewis was kept out because of Button. Lewis must have been half a lap ahead. This was certainy not an issue for them.
The question could be "why didn't everyone pit on lap 38?" but that question might belong on a different thread.
There are two questions which are valid to the final stops and they are both directed at McLaren.
1. Why didn't you react and pit your drivers earlier?
2. Why didn't you pit your lead driver first?
You said "F1 insider", not me. Why didn't you say "Mark Hughes" in the first place?
"Button’s sensitivity to the car’s microbehaviour has probably played its part in how the team looks to him more than Hamilton for set-up/development direction through a race weekend. Whenever there is a divergence of opinion on Friday over which direction to follow, the team invariably follows Button’s preference probably secure in the knowledge that Hamilton will be able to drive well regardless of the car’s traits, whereas Button loses more of his performance if the car is not exactly as he needs it."
I see nothing there regarding design. So we are now back to opinion. Cook and others have one opinion whilst I and others have different ones, surely this is one of the main reasons for fora (forums?).
Cover a turd in hundreds and thousands and put it in a bakery and I'll sniff it out in no time.
Vortex
Race Winner
Bit below the belt!
riskitall
Points Scorer
but why does lewis keep on losing time because of poorly timed pitstops?if lewis sais im ok to stay out,but his team believe he'd be better off pitting,then they should say so,otherwise they are not doing their best for him.
also it still doesnt explain why they wont let lewis pit first when button doesnt need to.
lewis always still has to wait regardless of how desperatly he needs to pit.
i personally am going off button,he seems like a nice fella,but i think he's abit of a snake.
and his latest comments i find very interesting.
plus i think he's now getting too big headed.recently he said like alonso he needs a team of ppl around him to really achieve.
to me that means i need to be the number 1 to achieve.so maybe he now feels thats what he is,and lets not forget whitmarsh said he would have made alonso number 1.whitmarsh sees button as his number 1 imo,the way he talks about each driver is a massive giveaway.and correct me if im wrong but in the last race did webber lose his lead over vettel by being held up in the pits?
i read somewhere that he did.this is another example of a team messing up a pitstop to help the other driver.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Mark Hughes is an F1 insider
Do things really have to be made so simple?
Back to opinion?
if you read my post where I took the time to put forward an interpretation of my observations, I clearly state that it's not presented as absolute thruth as I have no inside into or evidence just my observations and deductions
You still felt the need to rubbish this by ridiculing the F1 insider bit and upon being supplied with the relevant quote your defence is to say 'well it's only your opinion'
Yes its my opinion lets leave it like that shall we?
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
Well, he's not. He's a journalist - to call Mark Hughes an F1 insider would be like calling Robert Peston a bank insider. Yes they might both be informed, but they're definitively not insiders! I suppose the true test would be if you would describe Jake Humphrey as an F1 insider... I certainly wouldn't! ... Mind I do find it ironic that this is the same Mark Hughes who was lambasted last season when he wrote articles asking what had happened to Hamilton!....
I think there's a strong possibility that Hamilton will not be driving for McLaren next year. Unless he has an amazing season leading to pressure from sponsors to sign him up Whitmarsh (irked by the fact that Hamilton went and spoke to Redbull in Canada last year) may be happy to let him go at a time when McLaren are trying to cut costs. Another factor is if they manage to maintain their early season competitiveness throughout the season. McLaren will be in a strong position to dictate terms of contract (meaning Hamilton will be forced to take a pay cut) and I think this will inevitably lead to deadlock in negotiations. They could argue that in Jenson, they have a stable and experienced driver who can genuinely challenge for the championship given the right machinery, notwithstanding the fact that Hamilton won just as many races last year despite the contrasting fortunes of both drivers. Hamilton is effectively driving for his future this year as harsh as this may sound.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
By my definition journalists are inside and us casual observers and fans forming opinions on fora ( got to be the ponciest expression) are outsiders
Using politics as an example I would say Paxman is an insider and more informed than the casual observer
An insider does not have to be inside a team, I would have said McLaren insider, inside the F1 circus, just as Maylandar, Bernie, the F1 doctor, and even the PR person at FOM is an insider
As far as Hughes copping flac for questioning LHs season? That's what journalists do, they create stories. They tackle topics the public are interested in.
As far as insiders go its common knowledge that when journalists quote their sources as 'an insider' a widening of the possibility of what qualifies as insider is required (in the case of Times international an extreme widening)
Anyway there are many things in my post that are relevant to the topic in hand and an attempt to clarify what an insider means is not really a big deal now and just diverts from the points put across, or maybe that's the idea, however that would be against the rules as it will derail the thread
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