Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[Hamberg]

Maybe

I am just interested in hearing what those who claimed JB had affected LH and pushed him into mistakes had to say about JBs error

Apart from Il Leone not a peep

So you think Button, who was ahead in the championship, won the first race and made a mistake in wet conditions was pushed into it because he felt under pressure from Hamilton?

The reason nobody has anything to say (and yes I am speaking for everyone else), is because it is ludicrous and it is boring.

 

[teabagyokel]

Guys,

This has been the most leniently moderated thread in Clip history - and sadly it shows. We would appreciate a little bit more respect shown between each side in this debate.

Consider this an informal warning to everyone who is present. Retaliation will not be a defence. It is your perogative to disagree with anything anyone says anywhere on Clip The Apex, but we do not want to besmirch our reputation by allowing personal attacks on other members and condescending and patronising posts on this site.

Thankyou for paying attention,

TBY.

 

[Il_leone]

No off course but this argument has followed on from 2006 as

Button won't win a race
Button won;t be world champion
Button won;t drive for a top team
Button won;t beat Hamilton
Button won;t beat Hamilton again as some have posted elsewhere

 

[The Artist.....]

No off course but this argument has followed on from 2006 as

Button won't win a race
Button won;t be world champion
Button won;t drive for a top team
Button won;t beat Hamilton
Button won;t beat Hamilton again as some have posted elsewhere

There are a couple more...

Button only won the title as he had a better car than anyone else
The only reason button would beat his team-mate is because something compromised his team-mate!

Being honest, this view was perpetuated by the tabloid press, and was reinforced by people on the old bbc sites, when people neglected that f1 was a combination of car+driver!

 

[F1ang-o]

Yes even the great AS crashed in a 50/50 incident whilst lapping a back marker, who would just be waved aside nowadays, I don't think JB needs to fear his superlicence getting revoked for his costly error

Maybe JB thought Karthi was a back marker..but at the last race he had track position.......But as usual...BBC David the CoulthardRBR friend of JB says ...KK almost stopped on the apex of the corner....
The BBC came to JB rescue last year in another brain fade moment with KK...in a P3? incident...a car had gone off at the last corner..a few minutes left of session......the car is being craned away.....yellow flags....KK is driving past on opposite side of track...JB drives in between KK & marshalls removing car......Beebers said something & then added KK was going slow.........
This is what is required....JB on radio..... "KK was going dangerously slow"...WTF ...no pack behind JB.....IMHO....an assumption KK was pitting. This incident video was put on here somewhere...by Keke......Then LH was on track ...the Beebers said 'LH has chance to get a fast lap in here, that lot will be gone before LH arrives at that corner'..he did & it was....but one solitary yellow was still being valiantly waved....LH saw it at the last moment........He did not come up with any excuse.... he took a grid drop.This was practice..not Quali.so he would not be taking any undue risks.
JB putting LH in to the wall at Canada, & saying he didn't see him, I could & I was a lot further away..... & going for a pit stop at Red Bull.........
As for Monk, giving a half story re the 2008 pit lane incident.
LH was checking his setup...he saw a car stopped at the reds & pulled to the left where Kimi was double parked..Nico ran into the back of LH & they both got a grid drop.
Beeb the big up button brigade, who dine with Button at races

 

[teabagyokel]

JB putting LH in to the wall at Canada, & saying he didn't see him, I could & I was a lot further away

Button would be using rain-covered wing mirrors and looking through a load of spray anyway - it is entirely reasonable that he couldn't see Hamilton.

 

[F1ang-o]

Button would be using rain-covered wing mirrors and looking through a load of spray anyway - it is entirely reasonable that he couldn't see Hamilton.

But .....he would have seen the red light flashing, making him aware of where the following car was? ...& IMHO......knowing how JB is always on the radio...he would have known it belonged to LH.

 

[teabagyokel]

But .....he would have seen the red light flashing, making him aware of where the following car was? ...& IMHO......knowing how JB is always on the radio...he would have known it belonged to LH.

Isn't the flashing red light on the back of the car?

 

[GeoffP]

I think JB would have known LH was behind him, on fresher tyres, looking to regain his position.

This probably contributed to him misjudging the conditions, lock his rear wheels and therefore lose braking and hit NH.

A racing incident, in changeable conditions I don't think references to any driver's performance either positive or negative is relevant. LH certainly gained from it, wouldn't have helped NK, and seemed to set the tone for the rest of JBs race.

Shame, but these things happen as implied by the term "Racing Incedent"

 

[F1ang-o]

Isn't the flashing red light on the back of the car?

Yes of course & can be seen in the rain from the front.....above & to both sides of the car...

 

[teabagyokel]

Yes of course & can be seen in the rain from the front.....above & to both sides of the car...

I doubt the light is that bright.

 

[Josh]

Yes of course & can be seen in the rain from the front.....above & to both sides of the car...

Where?
edit: at 16 seconds

 

[F1ang-o]

[quote="Josh, post: 118675, member

Where?
edit: at 16 seconds[/quote]
Well.........you can see from that how clearly...LH can be seen....red light or not.
If the conditions are really bad rain on the Mway you can see red brake lights behind in your rear view mirrors...obviously it wasn't that bad...was it?

 

[The Artist.....]

Well.........you can see from that how clearly...LH can be seen....red light or not.
If the conditions are really bad rain on the Mway you can see red brake lights behind in your rear view mirrors...obviously it wasn't that bad...was it?

The visibility in F1 mirrors is poor. Particularly in the wet. The visibility from McLaren's mirrors was demonstrated even more ably in Spa 2011. Button likely didn't see Hamilton. As such, there was a collision. In a similar manner, Hamilton didn't see Kobayashi, which led to a similar collision at Spa!

 

[Josh]

Well we can definitely see how clear he can be seen on a camera, that's for sure. Nonetheless, the red light on an F1 car can not be seen when looking at the front or the side, which was your argument.

edit: And also what The Artist said ^. Incidents like those two are less likely to happen now though, because Hamilton requested an improvement to the mirrors (which they agreed to).

 

[RickD]

[quote="Josh, post: 118675, member
Well.........you can see from that how clearly...LH can be seen....red light or not.
If the conditions are really bad rain on the Mway you can see red brake lights behind in your rear view mirrors...obviously it wasn't that bad...was it?

You do realise how much the camera lightens and enhances the scenes you see on your screen?

 

[FB]

I love the idea of comparing the view from the mirrors on a family saloon on the motorway with an F1 car, vibrating like crazy at 150mph and the driver looking through the letterbox that is there helmet whilst the spray from the car in front covers their visor.

Ah well, whatever suits your argument. I reckon if you get the in car voice recording from Button's car you can quite clearly hear him say ""Up yours Hamilton, this is my team now. EAT WALL!" and then wrenches the steering wheel across to run into him.

 

[F1ang-o]

Really fell into that one...should know by now....
I was remembering the monsoon weather of 2009.....
And Canada last year was not bad at all.....
Just watched the part of race where LH can either go into Button or wall
Then the commentary from BBC....whilst LH is making his way to the pits...DCRBR "suspension damage, puncture..I'll be suprised if he makes it back to the pits"
LH was told to park it...at the end of the race he said the car only had a puncture...could have got back in the race..
Done his drive thru.....which seem to be almost off the agenda this year....
What about the rest of the brain fade moments?

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

There are a couple more...

Button only won the title as he had a better car than anyone else

In fairness, that argument has been used by some against Hamilton too, as well as against numerous others. Jacques Villeneuve, Damon Hill for instance to name but two?
Not an argument I necessarily agree with, I hasten to add.

 

[Slyboogy]

I'm surprised this thread is still going...

But it is quite interesting nevertheless