Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[Bill Boddy]

Cook, you asked a question, I answered it. I could equally have said Kobayashi, Spa, it was just Singapore that popped up first.

In Singapore Massa fought to keep Hamilton behind him, a perfectly legitimate thing to do. He did not break any rules, just made his car as wide as possible up to the time Hamilton ran into him. As a matter of interest, Massa drove in exactly the same way when Button came up behind him on Sunday, some of the moves were very aggressive. However, Button managed to overtake without running into him.

The final point of your answer is just plain rubbish and needs no answer, imo.

Button's running into Karthikeyan was a bad mistake, there is no excuse for it. But then equally it could be said that it very rarely happens, when was the last time? On the other hand you can go through Hamilton's record since he came into F1 and you will find that he has either run into someone or retired due to an accident where no-one else was involved at least once in every season.

Some parts of this posting are my opinion and so may be open to question. Others, however, are a matter of record.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Button crashed a few times last year into other people and caused retirements, he even terminated the races of 2 drivers, Alonso and Hamilton in the same race

Statistically over both careers Button does not have less incidents and dnfs

I have still never seen LH do anything as amateurish as lose an effective lead (already gifted to him) by crashing into the worst driver in the worst team on the grid

and in changeable conditions where even rookies know that extreme caution is required when attempting to drive fast

 

[teabagyokel]

For those that know their history: Schlesser.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Yes even the great AS crashed in a 50/50 incident whilst lapping a back marker, who would just be waved aside nowadays, I don't think JB needs to fear his superlicence getting revoked for his costly error

Poor Schlesser, what a legacy to leave in F1

Back to Button vs Hamilton, I still believe that JBs mistake was more amateurish than anything LH did last year

 

[RasputinLives]

I have still never seen LH do anything as amateurish as lose an effective lead (already gifted to him) by crashing into the worst driver in the worst team on the grid

I once saw him crash into the back of someone because he forgot that red meant stop though.

 

[Il_leone]

So they would have been willing to gamble a potential fight back for 1 or 2 points with their driver who had rubbish pace and was effectively out of the race than a safe bet on the driver with the good pace at the sharp end where the points differences between places is greater and are already in hand.

There was no doubt, whatsoever, that getting Hamilton onto the slicks was the right thing to do at the time. The only concern was that it might rain and, even then, those inters were no longer good for a wet track anyway.

So now you have reversed your statement to say that they took a gamble rather than avoided taking a gamble.

They took a gamble with Button because it would have only got him a few points if it worked but he still would score nil points if it did not
They avoided taking a gamble with Hamilton on when to change to dry tyres

Like I said Mclaren wanted to make sure they covered Alonso, Perez and Vettel off to be absolutely sure it was the right thing for Hamilton

If Hamilton changed tyres and got it wrong he would have lost points to Webber, Raikkonen, Senna and Di Resta so from 3rd to 7th thats 9 points at least

For all Mclaren knew Alonso might have been slower than PErez on dry tyres. Ferrari took a gamble because Alonso was struggling or the man himself knew to go onto them then and was confident in doing so

I still think Hamilton needs to be prepared to make the call in these conditions himself if he thought he should have on dry tyres then instead of waiting around for it

 

[Brogan]

I still think Hamilton needs to be prepared to make the call in these conditions himself if he thought he should have on dry tyres then instead of waiting around for it

It all depends on which tyre is the fastest under the conditions - the slick or the worn inter.

Only the team can provide that information to the driver.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

I once saw him crash into the back of someone because he forgot that red meant stop though.

Yes but that was in his rookie year

I am talking about last year when LH had his worst season and was said to have
been mentally troubled due to the nature of his errors

 

[Il_leone]

Yes even the great AS crashed in a 50/50 incident whilst lapping a back marker, who would just be waved aside nowadays, I don't think JB needs to fear his superlicence getting revoked for his costly error

Poor Schlesser, what a legacy to leave in F1

Back to Button vs Hamilton, I still believe that JBs mistake was more amateurish than anything LH did last year

Well Spa comes to mind when overtaking Kobayashi he had a moment of brain fade and forgot he was going to be there with the drs and got hit for failing to give enough room. That was amateurish

But I agree by Button standards it was amateurish. At least he did not make a fuss about it and just forgot about it.
He is not as amateurish as Vettel makes.

 

[Il_leone]

I think he's more or less gone and it is not by choice.

But he does not really have what you would call better options elsewhere even Red Bull there are now distancing themselves away from signing Hamilton although I am sure they would be interested if he was available

Ferrari- Does Alonso really have a stranglehold that Luca won;t even dare to challenge. Luca did tell Schumacher he was siging Raikkonen for 2007 and it was going to be equal status and for him to gradually pass over team leader

Mercedes - they have their own selection of drivers available to them but having Hamilton is still an outside shot and the car is not quite there yet

Lotus - I am not sure if they can afford Lewis' salary and whether Proton will be in for the long haul plus the engine issue when the deal with Renault expires in 2014

 

[RasputinLives]

Yes but that was in his rookie year

No it wasn't

 

[teabagyokel]

Yes but that was in his rookie year

No, it wasn't. It was in 2008.

 

[Hamberg]

Back to Button vs Hamilton, I still believe that JBs mistake was more amateurish than anything LH did last year

Has it really come to this???

 

[Cookinflatsix]

No, it wasn't. It was in 2008.

I stand corrected, still comparing 2011 and this year though

Has it really come to this???

It comes down to Button vs Hamilton,

This much is stated in the title of the thread

 

[RasputinLives]

It comes down to Button vs Hamilton,

This much is stated in the title of the thread

I think Hamberg meant have you really come to this - I tend to agree with him - you are starting to sound increasingly desprete.

 

[Il_leone]

You're usually allowed one mistake a season like last year Button made that pit stop error in China got slaughtered for it and then turned it around in Canada after a few racing incidents and began a series of consistency that Hamilton found difficult to match

So lets see how Button responds in China

Even Vettel made mistakes last year and they were amateurish he got away with them because the tracks have run off areas not gravel traps like the 90's which would have buried his car

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Maybe

I am just interested in hearing what those who claimed JB had affected LH and pushed him into mistakes had to say about JBs error

Apart from Il Leone not a peep

 

[RickD]

I stand corrected, still comparing 2011 and this year though

Why only last year then Cook? Does this justify your arguments and anything earlier is too inconvenient for your 'theories'?

 

[Josh]

It was a stupid mistake as has already been said elsewhere on this forum and as he has already said himself.

Now what is your point? If you're trying to suggest that Button was affected by Hamilton then that's pretty ridiculous.

 

[Il_leone]

Button crashed a few times last year into other people and caused retirements, he even terminated the races of 2 drivers, Alonso and Hamilton in the same race

Statistically over both careers Button does not have less incidents and dnfs

I have still never seen LH do anything as amateurish as lose an effective lead (already gifted to him) by crashing into the worst driver in the worst team on the grid

and in changeable conditions where even rookies know that extreme caution is required when attempting to drive fast

Statistically Button will have more dnfs and incidents by the virtue he's done 7 more seasons than Hamilton so you're comparing apples and bananas.

I'd be happy to know the list of accidents that you can name Button has had. Also Button has had to drive cars that were at the back of the grid more often than Hamilton who only really has 2009 having that experience