Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[RickD]

Come on, we are all adults here

My MHO is that MW favours JB over LH, possibly under the belief that it makes strategic sense. Any chief needs his own people at the helm, this guy likes JB and is convinced that makIng him a priority will garner more success even if the other driver is faster or at least equal in potential

Just trying to address the point everyone (on forums) seems to be discussing, why does Lewis look like an afterthought in MWs McLaren?

Who is everyone Cook, do you have your tin foil hat on again?

The only conspiracy around here is the one you seem to be making up once again without any proof. I really would hope MW reads these posts and decides to take matters further with you in a court of law. That would be the best possible outcome to the load of crap you seem to be posting on this forum..

 

[racecub]

Please remember, there is no conspiracy at McLaren!

How do you know?

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Who is everyone Cook, do you have your tin foil hat on again?

The only conspiracy around here is the one you seem to be making up once again without any proof. I really would hope MW reads these posts and decides to take matters further with you in a court of law. That would be the best possible outcome to the load of crap you seem to be posting on this forum..

You mentioned conspiracy, all I asked was a question that no answer has been proffered bar my legitimate allegation

LH appears to have lesser priority wrt strategy and car setup, many on this and pretty much every other forum are commenting on this

What do you think?

 

[no-FIAt-please]

This thread is going in circles.

People claim there is a conspiracy at McLaren against Hamilton. Opposition do the usual no proof post. The cycle continues...

Can people not see this is going nowhere, each camp is set in their ways and any evidence the others have is clearly not enough to change the opposites' minds.

I won't be clicking on this thread anymore...

 

[The Artist.....]

This thread is going in circles.

People claim there is a conspiracy at McLaren against Hamilton. Opposition do the usual no proof post. The cycle continues...

Can people not see this is going nowhere, each camp is set in their ways and any eveidence the others have is clearly not enough to change the opposites' minds.

I won't be clicking on this thread anymore...

... It was threads like this that caused the mass exodus from "The other place" which led to this site becoming so popular.... (Sorry for getting drawn into this!!!)

 

[Brogan]

As I have already posted several times, without this thread the rest of the forum would just be polluted with this crap.

We saw it over and over last year and it has already started again this year with numerous threads being derailed.

At least here it is confined to one thread which is easily avoided.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Yes, let's not turn this into another Hamilton debacle

Let's get back on topic

LH vs JB, both races this season have thrown up questions regarding which driver gets first dibs on pittng and receives situational intelligence as soon as its available

A pattern appears to be forming, LH left out on old tyres when an HRT car's boffins have ready already worked out that the change works, having changed Button in a timely manner even though he was not lead driver. Last race JB also stopped first as he was in the lead

many are waiting for explanations for this, speculative is enough to be getting on with and is within the laws of libel

 

[RickD]

You mentioned conspiracy, all I asked was a question that no answer has been proffered bar my legitimate allegation

LH appears to have lesser priority wrt strategy and car setup, many on this and pretty much every other forum are commenting on this

What do you think?

I think you're a nut job who seriously needs to re-evaluate your outlook, but I guess this post will get deleted, you did ask what I think though.

(Sorry Brogan)..

 

[Cookinflatsix]

I think you're a nut job who seriously needs to re-evaluate your outlook, but I guess this post will get deleted, you did ask what I think though.

(Sorry Brogan)..

Great, at least you offered an opinion

Still no addressing the question though, no conspiracy, I gave a possible explantation, no one has supplied anything else, only ridicule and insinuations that the rules are being broken

I gave a perfectly valid and non conspiracy inspired explanation for what's happened in the last two races wrt McLaren strategic thinking

What did I get back? Nothing yet apart from accusations of peddling conspiracy theories

 

[racecub]

Just to completely change the subject here(well not completely) Someone was asking a few pages back for a link to Whitmarsh kicking Lewis off the McLaren young drivers proramme. Well I found a reference to it

'I don't think McLaren should manage Lewis,' said Whitmarsh, who confessed that he tore up Hamilton's contract at the end of 2004 when his dad Anthony was pushing for Lewis to be moved up to GP2 rather than complete another year in Formula Three.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ncerns-fragile-distracted-Lewis-Hamilton.html

Ok, as you were.........

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Just to completely change the subject here(well not completely) Someone was asking a few pages back for a link to Whitmarsh kicking Lewis off the McLaren young drivers proramme. Well I found a reference to it

Outstanding stuff Racecub!

 

[kristi]

LH appears to have lesser priority wrt strategy and car setup, many on this and pretty much every other forum are commenting on this

What do you think?

I think there is a non-zero chance (i.e. greater than zero chance) that Hamilton won't be back at McLaren for 2013.

I think either Hamilton has already decided this - and McLaren know this - or that McLaren have decided they're not desperate for Hamilton's services for 2013.

I don't think it's a probable occurrence - but I do think there is a non-zero chance of it.

Many things have gone wrong over the last year in Q3 or during Grands Prix to put it down to pure bad luck or mere coincidence for me to think so.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Many things have gone wrong over the last year in Q3 or during Grands Prix to put it down to pure bad luck or mere coincidence for me to think so.

Great explanation kristi and could be the answer

It's refreshing that we can speculate about what is obvious to many, without a lynch mob screaming about conspiracies and demanding the thread be shut down.

 

[Brogan]

I meant to do this yesterday after the lap chart data was dismissed as not proving anything with regards to time gained or lost.

These are the gaps for Button, Vettel, Hamilton and Pérez to Alonso.
The gaps before and after the last pit stop are highlighted, with the gain or loss at the bottom; a negative value is a gain, a positive value is a loss.

I would hope that this chart clearly shows how much time each driver made or lost during that last pit stop.
Hamilton, instead of being within a few seconds of Alonso and possibly able to challenge for the win, ended up even further behind and was himself only a few seconds ahead of Vettel, whereas before the gap had been in excess of 10 seconds.

So relative to Button, Hamilton lost 12.597 seconds.
A bit of an own goal by McLaren there.

Not that I expect this to change any of the entrenched opinions on either side.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

So both Hamilton and Perez lost about 6 seconds to Alonso by pitting at the wrong time and at a time when both drivers were closing in on him before continuing to do so for the rest of the race.

Brogan. Could you post Riciardos lap times along side showing when he pitted and the lap times that should have been the indicator for a stop, please and if it's not too much trouble? When watching the live timing it was him that had me shouting from my virtual McLaren pitwall on my sofa.

 

[Brogan]

So McLaren knew how fast Ric was going (from the deltas), hence their radio message about him being 5 seconds a lap quicker.
Which is why they pitted Button for new tyres.

No-one has still been able to explain why therefore they kept Hamilton out for another two laps.

Arguably McLaren threw away a win at this race.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Thanks for the table Brogan

As we suspected LH was the biggest net loser at that stage and lost the chance to challenge Alonso for the lead.

One side simply look for explanations as a pattern seems to be emerging, the other side Im afraid have not engaged in this discussion, instead callIng for censure and demanding the suppression of free speech

Hopefully they will allow the thread to continue in their absence as they have promised to avoid it

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Button a direct reaction to Riciardo's outlap. Lewis in two laps later. Now why would they do that? What the hell were they thinking?

Thanks for posting that Bro.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

No-one has still been able to explain why therefore they kept Hamilton out for another two laps.

I did try to put forward a reasonable attempt at an explantation, unfortunately it disturbed a few posters, but If I may I will repeat it as those posters have left anyway

I think McLaren split their strategies, giving LH the 'other option' in the belief he is more able to drive around problems and make up incredible time on old tyres or make the riskiest options work. Maybe this way they feel that they can garner more points by covering more bases.
I don't agree or think its fair if this is the case.

FB suggested that it was just that JB had integrated well into the team and LHs fans are realising that he is not the messiah, I don't think this explains it either

kristi suggested that LH and or the team have already decided to part and that's why priority appears to be shifting from LH, or that McLaren are trying to 'cheapen' LHs value pre new contract talks, both of these could explain it

Apart from that it's been talk of conspiracies and tin foil hats ( hadn't heard that since 606)

 

[The Artist.....]

Why is everyone concentrating on why Hamilton stopped late? Why not ask about alonso and Perez? It seems very simple- the drivers at the front are more risk averse when it comes to tyre decisions- they are s,ways going to wait for the cars behind to stop in order to not lose track position! Just because he could've stopped on lap 39, then the logical conclusion would have been that alonso and Perez would (likely) have stopped on the next lap to prevent themselves getting jumped! You can't look at one driver in isolation without considering how the other drivers would react! Button (and ricciardo) were no danger to alonso. Hamilton could have been a danger, and as such, we cannot say that stopping him on lap 39 would have made up 10seconds on alonso!!!!!