Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[GeoffP]

After Whitmarsh clearly stated at Australia that Jensen got the pit stop choice by virtue of being in front I don't think we'd need conspiracy theories after the weekend as we'd already have a quote from Lewis if Jenson had decided Lewis' strategy.

Also, one should never forget that at the first stop Lewis missed the pit box which caused a delay and at the second stop problems removing the tape over the right hand side brake duct caused delays, the left hand side causing too much trouble to remove was left in place which may have caused problems on brake balance.

After his first pit stop Button certainly had problems keeping the heat in his tyres beyond the first couple of laps, a point Lewis was probably aware of, so this may well have made him delay his second stop to ensure the track was dry enough to enable the McLaren to use its tyres properly.

So, we have driver error, weather change difficulties and driver choice.... But I'm struggling to see conspiracy.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

After Whitmarsh clearly stated at Australia that Jensen got the pit stop choice by virtue of being in front I don't think we'd need conspiracy theories after the weekend as we'd already have a quote from Lewis if Jenson had decided Lewis' strategy.

Also, one should never forget that at the first stop Lewis missed the pit box which caused a delay and at the second stop problems removing the tape over the right hand side brake duct caused delays, the left hand side causing too much trouble to remove was left in place which may have caused problems on brake balance.

After his first pit stop Button certainly had problems keeping the heat in his tyres beyond the first couple of laps, a point Lewis was probably aware of, so this may well have made him delay his second stop to ensure the track was dry enough to enable the McLaren to use its tyres properly.

So, we have driver error, weather change difficulties and driver choice.... But I'm struggling to see conspiracy.

Conspiracies aside, the radio transcript, which is posted and referenced in this thread, clearly shows that they gave the information to Jenson first and asked Jenson whether he wanted to pit first. In both cases, the choice to come in was given to the driver, but the decision was presented to them at different times and at great benefit to Jenson, ultimately at the expense of Lewis. Not necessarily a conspiracy, but it does not corroborate with the idea that the leading driver gets the pick of the strategy. In this case, the exact opposite was true.

 

[Jen]

That is not necessarily true. It has been said that McLaren have a desire for Jenson's involvement with McLaren to extend far beyond his racing career. In senior management, a protege can be of quite an age. Jenson is only 32. A whipper snapper in terms of large corporate business. It does, however, depend on whether that is what they have in mind for him, though.

I had hoped that I would walk away from a goad such as this - I have to a degree but would like to state that I do not (thank God) live in the corporate world and if I were to ever equate that mire with F1 I would start self-harming.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I had hoped that I would walk away from a goad such as this - I have to a degree but would like to state that I do not (thank God) live in the corporate world and if I were to ever equate that mire with F1 I would start self-harming.

Not a goad at all? I just disagreed with your statement and told you why.

 

[GeoffP]

Just dug back to look at the radio transcript. In itself it does not show Jenson having first choice, it does show Jensen choosing to pit first.

Maybe the Australia transcript would back up or undermine the conversation style, but to be honest life's just not long enough. On each stop Lewis talked to the pit first and did not request a stop, for the second stop he ended up getting called in due to the pace of the other cars.

So looks like I fell for that "check the transcript" ploy

 

[Jen]

Not a goad at all? I just disagreed with your statement and told you why.

My reference to JB's status as a possible protege was an attempt at humour in a thread that I had said I had would not comment on again - I suspect this is why Cook gave it a 'like' (but could be wrong!).

You will note that I have emboldened two parts of your quote and one of my own - I'm sure you can work out why.

 

[Hamberg]

Just dug back to look at the radio transcript. In itself it does not show Jenson having first choice, it does show Jensen choosing to pit first.

Maybe the Australia transcript would back up or undermine the conversation style, but to be honest life's just not long enough. On each stop Lewis talked to the pit first and did not request a stop, for the second stop he ended up getting called in due to the pace of the other cars.

So looks like I fell for that "check the transcript" ploy

I may have missed something. From the script neither driver 'chose' to pit at either of the points. The script does show that Jenson was pretty much told the team believed he should go onto slicks and Lewis was told this two laps later. Earlier in the feed both drivers were being told they needed to make their inters last.

The only time McLaren and the radio feed showed either driver making a choice was on the call to move from inters to wets and then when Jenson went inters to inters. The inters to slicks was instruction from the pit wall.

 

[FB]

Lewis Hamilton is the most marketable face F1 has had since James Hunt. Why would Martin Whitmarsh not want to take advantage of that opportunity? Hamilton has brought many new fans to the sport, for good and for bad, and has created a brand which Mclaren have, and will continue to, take full advantage of, Martin Whitmarsh included.

Perhaps Lewis Hamilton is not as omnipotent as some of his fans would hope or believe and, perhaps, Jenson Button is a much better driver than many of us ever thought? Also, perhaps, Button has integrated into the Mclaren set up post Ron better than Lewis has?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

My reference to JB's status as a possible protege was an attempt at humour in a thread that I had said I had would not comment on again - I suspect this is why Cook gave it a 'like' (but could be wrong!).

You will note that I have emboldened two parts of your quote and one of my own - I'm sure you can work out why.

Doh! Sorry Jen. I think I may be having a humour malfunction today.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Lewis Hamilton is the most marketable face F1 has had since James Hunt. Why would Martin Whitmarsh not want to take advantage of that opportunity? Hamilton has brought many new fans to the sport, for good and for bad, and has created a brand which Mclaren have, and will continue to, take full advantage of, Martin Whitmarsh included.

Perhaps Lewis Hamilton is not as omnipotent as some of his fans would hope or believe and, perhaps, Jenson Button is a much better driver than many of us ever thought? Also, perhaps, Button has integrated into the Mclaren set up post Ron better than Lewis has?

Agree on all that FB

But it still doesn't address or explain why more people than ever are openly commenting on the goings on at MW's McLaren, especially wrt to why a perfectly capable driver is constantly hampered as the team favour another equally capable driver

I only tried to look into this peculiarity, my explanation above that MW is optimising the teams chances by giving his better driver the shit detail in the assumption he can drive round problems better than the other 'disturbingly goodlooking' driver

I was hopIng someone might have another explanation before we start to look at the more disturbing explanations ( in the year 2012)

 

[Bill Boddy]

....It might just be that JB stirs him in more ways than LH does

Just what do you mean by this?

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Come on, we are all adults here

My MHO is that MW favours JB over LH, possibly under the belief that it makes strategic sense. Any chief needs his own people at the helm, this guy likes JB and is convinced that makIng him a priority will garner more success even if the other driver is faster or at least equal in potential

Just trying to address the point everyone (on forums) seems to be discussing, why does Lewis look like an afterthought in MWs McLaren?

 

[OnTheLimit]

I don't believe McLaren would intentionally to sabotage Hamilton

They did it to Alonso in 2007 so i guess there's every chance of it happening again. I don't believe it is the case this time around but its possible

Hamilton has lost the spark he used to have, on track and even in his interviews...funnily enough the sparks been out ever since JB arrived at Mclaren

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Hamilton has lost the spark he used to have, on track and even in his interviews. Funnily enough its been apparent ever since JB arrived at Mclaren

YOu mean he is more aware of the snake pit that is F1?

 

[Bill Boddy]

I'm sorry, I must have missed the reply to my question. Could you repeat it, please?

 

[The Artist.....]

You know, I find it amusing/ironic/irritating that there are double standards going on - now i'm unashamedly a JB fan - always have been - never deny this... It just bugs me that whenever JB beats LH, then there's always some reason why - tyres, car problems, interference from the team boss (Or other fantastical reason), yet if JB comes out and says that there was some reason why he didn't perform, then those same people who defend LH with excuses accuse JB of being a whinger etc etc... Yes, there are many that go the other way as well - but these double standards are just horrendous!

Please remember, there is no conspiracy at McLaren!

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Crashing into the worst driver on the circuit is somewhat different from a clutch issue induced through no fault of your own

What do you reckon?

 

[The Artist.....]

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Very factual and well constructed reply

Thanks

 

[The Artist.....]

Crashing into the worst driver on the circuit is somewhat different from a clutch issue induced through no fault of your own

What do you reckon?

You really don't get the irony of this post do you??? Especially considering my previous post!

JB never tried to defend his drive on Sunday - I don't think anyone has! It was god-awful!....