Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[Bill Boddy]

I refer you to the second half of the post above yours.

but lewis could have pitted in aus without taking buttons lead,but he still had to wait,so your argument doesnt hold up.

I said "under changeable weather conditions and did not interfere with Hamilton in any way". When in Oz were those conditions relevant?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I refer you to the second half of the post above yours.



I said "under changeable weather conditions and did not interfere with Hamilton in any way". When in Oz were those conditions relevant?

If it makes no difference to the other driver, when are the conditions ever relevant?

 

[Bill Boddy]

If it makes no difference to the other driver, when are the conditions ever relevant?

The teams, who just happen to own the cars, not unnaturally want to get the best results out of them. So they set up strategies to achieve this. If Hamilton had pitted before Button it would have had to be two laps earlier than he did. The team decided that there was no reason to do this, they may have even decided that it would hamper Hamilton in the long run by his having tyres which might be excessively worn by the end of the race.

 

[Brogan]

I would argue that 1 lap earlier than optimum is better than 1 lap later as you avoid the cliff and the inevitable increase in lap time.

There is the knock on effect of having tyres 1 lap older in the last stint, but at least several seconds won't have been lost mid-race, putting the driver behind traffic.

Still, McLaren have never been great at managing Hamilton's tyres; witness when Hamilton himself and Bridgestone begged them for several laps to bring him in for a tyre change at China in 2007. For reasons known only to themselves, they refused and then it was too late.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

The teams, who just happen to own the cars, not unnaturally want to get the best results out of them. So they set up strategies to achieve this. If Hamilton had pitted before Button it would have had to be two laps earlier than he did. The team decided that there was no reason to do this, they may have even decided that it would hamper Hamilton in the long run by his having tyres which might be excessively worn by the end of the race.

Two points in response to that:

We can't defend one driver for taking his own initiative and then do the opposite for another. For example, in Hungary 2011 they asked Button to come in and Button made his own mind up to stay out. Did the team know best? Apparently not. If we are going to comment on such things then we have to apply the same measure to both drivers.

If we look at Aus last week in hindsight, it is obvious that they should have brought Lewis in when he complained about his tyres. The team thought otherwise and Lewis put his faith in them, which ultimately cost him.

 

[The Pits]

There is also the matter of field spread, especially on the first stint. If you are not going to clear traffic which has also not yet pitted, it may be worth staying out, if you are still quicker. I guess knowing where the traffic is and what they are doing is a key reason to trust the team in non changeable conditions, as opposed to it being a matter of how much grip you have due to track drying etc.

 

[Brogan]

Staying out for an extra lap or three wasn't an issue in the past.
With these new Pirelli's and the cliff-edge performance aspect though, 1 lap too late can have a significant impact on your race.

As we saw time and again last season, and even last weekend.

 

[Andyoak]

Ninja, there is one problem with Hamilton taking the initiative and pitting earlier than the team thinks is best... they probably won't be ready for him / can't be ready in time.

With Button choosing to stay out longer it is easier to handle and change.

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

Ninja, there is one problem with Hamilton taking the initiative and pitting earlier than the team thinks is best... they probably won't be ready for him / can't be ready in time.

With Button choosing to stay out longer it is easier to handle and change.

The team are aware of the cliff with the Pirellis, it can't be difficult for Hamilton to discuss with the team beforehand the possibility of him needing to pit earlier than planned. A simple radio call is then all that's needed.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Ninja, there is one problem with Hamilton taking the initiative and pitting earlier than the team thinks is best... they probably won't be ready for him / can't be ready in time.

With Button choosing to stay out longer it is easier to handle and change.

They should always be ready. You never know what's going to happen in F1. If they are not ready then they are not doing thier jobs properly.

 

[racecub]

No, but I think that you should have included the information that Button spent much of FP1 in the pits with an oil leak and spent some of FP2 having a minor brake problem fixed. After all he is the second McLaren driver.

Same old story as last season, it's Button who gets the broken-down old car. If you ask me Whitmarsh has got it in for him.

I only watched the last half hour so I didnt know that. I was telling you what I knew from that.

 

[Lewywo4]

I was just making an observation that's all nothing more nothing less..

 

[Il_leone]

for the pitstop window I don;t think Hamilton has it in him to say lets change tyres now and take the initiative

A good example is Hungary last year when it rained or drizzled the team called both in but Button said NO I'm fine on dries and stayed out and won because he knew he could handle the conditions on the damp track

usually in the dries it is the lead car who gets the first call to the pit stops...I am sure if the roles were reversed Hamilton would have been first to pit

NO one ever mentioned that Mclaren made Button do 3 stop strategies in Turkey and Spain to Hamilton's 4 stop. In Turkey they could Hamilton was 1.5 seconds a lap slower on the hard tyre and they were expecting Button to do the last stint on them when it clearly was not going to work

 

[Lewywo4]

Two points in response to that:

We can't defend one driver for taking his own initiative and then do the opposite for another. For example, in Hungary 2011 they asked Button to come in and Button made his own mind up to stay out. Did the team know best? Apparently not. If we are going to comment on such things then we have to apply the same measure to both drivers.

If we look at Aus last week in hindsight, it is obvious that they should have brought Lewis in when he complained about his tyres. The team thought otherwise and Lewis put his faith in them, which ultimately cost him.

Lewis should apply Jenson's actions at Hungary last year as precedent, to be used when he feels it necessary to pit.

 

[Andyoak]

I wasn't saying they couldn't do it but it is easier to handle a decision to stay out.

An early stop, irrespective of team / driver, is usually triggered by a puncture or noticeable / significant drop in speed. Either way it wasn't intended as a dig at Hamilton but as a possible explanation as to why he didn't come in.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Of course. I didn't see it as a dig. I just feel that the mechanics should be quick enough to be in position within the time it takes for a car to enter the pit-lane and get to the box. Even if you spring a surprise on them, there should never be any excuse for being caught out.

 

[RickD]

Yet teams constantly are..

 

[teabagyokel]

It depends on where in the pit lane you are really. Take Ant Davidson's beaver pitstop. Super Aguri were the first garage that day.

 

[Andyoak]

No worries... its 5 o'clock and time for a pint.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Yet teams constantly are..

Not on my watch.