Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

[Lewywo4]

That doesn't seem "woefully short-sighted" to me.
Especially considering the proposed engine changes for 2014 which could see the grid being mixed up.

What are the chances of Eccelstone torpedoing the proposed 2014 engine change, calling for the use of a V6 turbo charged engine?

 

[Brogan]

Very high based on his latest comments, which have been backed up by several of the teams.

 

[Lewywo4]

Turkey onwards...

At the end of the 2010 Turkish GP, I felt that Lewis had a very puzzeled and questioning look on his face after getting out of his car, which was the first time that I had seen Hamilton initially not smile after winning a race.

 

[Il_leone]

I wonder how many people think Mark Hughes was talking rubbish when he first spoke about that Hamilton and Button are going to develop into some sort of serious rivalry

 

[Bill Boddy]

Some of Hamilton's fans have still not got over a race which happened two and a half seasons ago. I suspect that Hamilton has, if he hasn't he will have an awful lot of problems by now.

 

[Quintessentially]

Hamilton won that race. I don't think there's anything to get over.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Bill Boddy you may well be right about some (not me, I hasten to add), but I think even impartial observers would have noticed a distinct difference to Hamilton's demeanour after that race, compared to anything that had gone before.

Hence it is not unreasonable to surmise that Turkey 2010 might have heralded the beginning of the change in his relationship with the team, and with Whitmarsh and Button in particular. This does not necessarily imply that anyone who holds that view is therefore 'unable to get over it'.

 

[Brogan]

To back up my earlier comment and for the avoidance of doubt...

Lewis Hamilton does not expect to win races with Mercedes in 2013

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103174

 

[The Pits]

Can I add, that I do expect him to win in a mercedes in 2013?

If the car is as competitive as it has been in the last few seasons, there have been opportunities missed, and one taken, so I would hope that Lewis would be able to convert an opportunity into a win.

Just my opinion, mind.

 

[The Artist.....]

Brogan The Pits

I expect Hamilton to win a race in 2013 too.... However, the only way I can see Mercedes being transformed into championship challengers is if they basically run this year's car with no development through 2013, and throw all their resources into 2014..... - which would basically write off 2013! - The Brackley team have done it before - although last time it was with the aid of Super Aguri, Honda and Dome all running separate wind tunnels!

 

[Brogan]

Irrespective of whether Mercedes and Hamilton win another race, leaving McLaren was the right thing to do.
If he had remained I could see the whole team breaking down next year, similar to 2007, if not worse.

 

[Quintessentially]

Brawn said their aero team has evolved over the past two years and they are now confident of the team they’ve put together. I think they will be in a better position to deliver next year, even it may not result in having a championship winning car. Aero is king in F1 and this is where McLaren have always excelled in that they have the know-how and stable aero platform to turn things around pretty quickly. This is why I don’t buy this engine regs argument some think would mix up the grid in 2014. Naturally, you expect Lewis to lower expectations but personally I don’t think his problem would be competitive machinery but more on the operational side. McLaren have taken two steps forward one step back most of the time this season despite having a very fast car and the fastest at one point. I’m sure Brawn would want to treat him and Rosberg equally, but I’m also sure that if Lewis proved that he can extract more out of the car than Rosberg, Mercedes will throw their weight behind him and not get preoccupied with bringing Rosberg up to speed. The nature of the pairing with Jenson and McLaren’s insistence on treating both drivers equally at any cost for me benefits Jenson more than Hamilton, and the more you think about it the more the Mercedes move makes sense.

 

[teabagyokel]

Brogan - Worse than 2007? I'm not sure there is any way they could end up worse than 2007!

 

[Brogan]

This has already been posted on the Button vs Pérez thread, but it's worth repeating here.

"He's been smart to build the (Ferrari) team around him, which is something we all strive for. I did it in my previous team (Honda/Brawn) and it's happening here (McLaren) too," said the 32-year-old.

Asked if he has taken another important step forwards with the impending departure of McLaren protege Hamilton, Button answered: "No comment."

But he did admit: "It's one less person in front of me.

It's fairly clear that the team dynamic and relationships have shifted over the last few months so this doesn't come as any surprise.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/button-working-to-build-mclaren-team-around-him/

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

Given that McLaren have always gone to great lengths to let the world know that both of their drivers are treated equally, even when the WDC is at stake, I think they'd look a bit silly if they suddenly changed to a Ferrari-esque approach so I very much doubt it'll happen. While I think the Ferrari approach is the way ahead in terms of winning a WDC (although I don't necessarily agree with it from a sporting perspective) McLaren evidently need to rethink something in terms of their working practices - not having been close to the drivers title since '08 and the contructors since 1998 says as much. I also can't see Perez being as willing to bend over as Massa has been for the past few years.

 

[snowy]

Due to the subtle psychological forces that play out in drivers, engineers and team principles minds it is impossible for a team to run two drivers equally. Ever since Jenson arrived at McLaren Martin Whitmarsh has been falling over backwards to accommodate Jenson and make him feel part of the McLaren family. Unfortunately the overwhelming affect of this has been to convince me - and I suspect Lewis feels the same way - that Martin prefers to see Jenson win.

It is highly likely that Martin Whitmarsh gets on far more affably with Jenson than Lewis, like it or not, this can have a dramatic effect on how a driver like Lewis performs. Fernando Alonso's performances fell off a cliff at McLaren when he felt unloved. Jenson has gone to extraordinary lengths to ingratiate himself with the team, knowing full well that feeling wanted and loved is worth 3 tenths a lap.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

snowy, do you have science-based evidence for that 3 tenths?

 

[Incubus]

Maybe he meant 3 inches?

 

[Brogan]

the fact that Lewis couldn't handle it speaks volumes about his mental abilities and says more about Lewis than it does about Jenson,

Couldn't handle what?
It's one all as far as seasons go and Hamilton is leading in this one.

I suspect part of the reason Hamilton has decided to leave McLaren is based on what Button said about moulding the team around himself. Perhaps it has been happening for longer than we the public have been led to believe?
He wouldn't be the first McLaren driver to complain of favouritism towards their team mate...

The fact that Button needs to be number one in the team speaks volumes about his ability as a driver and his self belief.

especially as this isn't the first time Lewis has fallen out with a teammate.

I wasn't aware Hamilton had fallen out with Button?
If anything, I would say it's the other way round; I don't mean that Button has fallen out with Hamilton as that would imply he once liked him and I don't believe he ever did.

You even said it yourself.

They were never mates, get over it.

 

[The Pits]

So far, there has been the article linked to by Brogan and a couple of tweets. My understanding was that they have never been friends, not sure about the respect piece, but I do not recall Jenson "dissing" Lewis, nor vice versa, notwithstanding the twitter issues.

My thoughts to both drivers remains unchanged. Lewis is going to Mercedes, in order that he can do what seems to be happening for Jenson at McLaren. Nothing wrong with that.

As for relations at McLaren, I recently heard that Lewis and Martin had a very warm relationship, and it was the Lewis/Ron side of things which were going sour, however, I do not know for certain.

One thing to bear in mind, Not being aware of the goings on behind closed doors, it is not easy to ascertain from which direction the issues have been flowing, and rarely are these things completely one sided.