Taking things to the nth degree, if safety was the only concern then we could remove the driver from the car completely and have the cars controlled by remote control. I'm guesing Hamilton would still win. I'm not sure I'd want to watch it though...
Poll Is it time for cockpit canopies ?
- Thread starter Greenlantern101
- Start date
Rutherford
Podium Finisher
There's a "just" missing in my sentence.
Further, I never stated that a canopy wouldn't have helped or may have imposed a greater danger. You also seem to be missing the point, that accidents that result in life threatening head injuries are not restricted to yellow flag conditions but can also happen under racing conditions.
But it seems some people have become oblivious to the dangers still surrounding the drivers these days, I assume that it is because there hasn't been a fatality since 1994 in F1.
Still there are tires and other debris thrown up into the air after some collision which a threat. Chilton came close to a tyre in Silverstone this year, had it hit him, we would be mourning the loss of an F1 driver.
Mezzer
You realise that you want humans to drive, to risk their lives but then why reject safety measures. I will repeat myself, canopies will not eradicate the danger, nor have other safety measures of the past been imposed to do so but to decrease the risk of drivers being fatally injured, maimed or disabled after an accident.
If we want humans to race, we must continuously improve their safety. Hope that all goes well, as the past has proven is not and never will be a safety measure.
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rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
There hasn't been a driver fatality since 1994 but a couple (or more?) marshals have died, including one last year run over by a recovery vehicle.
Rutherford
Podium Finisher
On page one and two of this thread, I also said that their safety must be improved too.
I wonder how a change of yellow flag rules alone, taking two examples, would have prevented Herny Surtees's death or Massa's injury, can anyone explain?
I wonder how a change of yellow flag rules alone, taking two examples, would have prevented Herny Surtees's death or Massa's injury, can anyone explain?
Rutherford do you want canopies?
Dario Resta
Podium Finisher
Henry Surtees death was caused by a flying wheel. Tethers have helped to prevent the dangers of loose wheels hitting drivers, and surely a canopy would have been crushed by the wheel anyway. I always thought the roll hoop was mega strong, but in an impact like Bianchi's it may as well not have been there. Similarly with Massa's accident, the sheer force with which the spring hit would have gone through a canopy. His visor didn't stop it, and the latest visors also now have extra protection to help avoid the sort of injuries Massa sustained, so the chances of it happening in future are diminished.
If you make the canopy so strong that is virtually indestructible, what happens if a driver / marshal needs to open it but can't? There's always a chance an impact would wedge it shut. I believe drivers would be more at risk in an F1 car with a canopy than without.
Some things seem like a good idea, but don't really work in practise. take for example the wheel fairings in use in Indycar. They are supposed to stop wheels riding over each other, but they don't. If you take Franchitti's career ending accident as an example the impact tore the fairing off allowing Franchitti's front wheel to ride up over the car in front's rear anyway.
If you make the canopy so strong that is virtually indestructible, what happens if a driver / marshal needs to open it but can't? There's always a chance an impact would wedge it shut. I believe drivers would be more at risk in an F1 car with a canopy than without.
Some things seem like a good idea, but don't really work in practise. take for example the wheel fairings in use in Indycar. They are supposed to stop wheels riding over each other, but they don't. If you take Franchitti's career ending accident as an example the impact tore the fairing off allowing Franchitti's front wheel to ride up over the car in front's rear anyway.
rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
I think Massa's accident would've been considerably less serious with a canopy.
Dario Resta
Podium Finisher
Maybe, but it would also have been less serious with a 2014 spec helmet.
All I can glean from the spa 2012 video is that someone made a massive jump start..
I think we all agree that if it is safer, it should be done. I don't consider it is.
And the problem with this discussion is that the incidents which we're prevented by safety are invisible.
And the problem with this discussion is that the incidents which we're prevented by safety are invisible.
It is not like we have had a plague of head injuries in the last 20 years is it? Even this one wasn't caused by direct impact he would have suffered the same fate even with a cockpit canopy I think the FIA proposals are the right thing in light of this incident as drivers do not slow down under yellows and all the canopies in world will not save a marshals life and lets face it we were pretty damn close to seeing one being killed on Sunday....
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Mephistopheles you're missing the point!
No I'm not, the question only arose due to this incident and I know that accidents don't only happen under yellows I'm not stupid..
Alright I am stupid.....
I know you didn't, but I did.
We can't possibly second-guess every conceivable scenario or prevent every conceivable type of injury; it's an inherently dangerous sport. But the powers that be can and should consider anything that can help reduce the dangers, both under yellow flags and under full race conditions.
With that in mind, I believe that stricter yellow flag speed limits could play a part. Canopies would not help at all.
That's just my opinion, but it's sincerely held by one who's been a fan of F1 long enough to have been an admirer of Jackie Stewart for his campaigning in the face of apathy or worse from the sport's administrators of his day. Just look at my username.
There is a theory that states the more safe something becomes the more risks people are prepared to take which in turn makes it more dangerous and so you will get diminishing returns from introducing more safety so I assume there is a crossover point where safety measures carry zero benefit.
Also introducing a safety measure such as canopies actually introduces other risks that were not there before and so if canopies are introduced and consequently a driver gets serious injured due to the canopy then we will all be screaming "Why did they introduce those bloody canopies anyone with half a brain could see they were dangerous, get rid of them as soon as"..
Also introducing a safety measure such as canopies actually introduces other risks that were not there before and so if canopies are introduced and consequently a driver gets serious injured due to the canopy then we will all be screaming "Why did they introduce those bloody canopies anyone with half a brain could see they were dangerous, get rid of them as soon as"..
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