Ayrton Senna

Today (19 August 2011) "Senna" opens in Toronto and i'm taking off early from work to catch a matinee' viewing. This is about as good a time as any to open this thread...

From Prost's thread:

This has to be said and i'll say it again here...

The director of the movie "Senna" - Asif Kapadia - was on a Motor Sport Magazine podcast with then McLaren manager Jo Ramirez (who, unusually, was a trusted friend of both Senna and Prost)...and in the podcast he said something like this:

(Paraphrasing) "We had access to all of Bernies archives...and when we looked at the video of the cars coming out of Tosa at Imola, Schumacher's Benetton was the only car which exhibited unusual signs of, *ahem*, traction control...even the other Benetton didn't have it..."

Go to the Motor Sport Magazine website and click on 'podcasts' and listen for yourselves (June 15th podcast, I think).

Why do I bring it up? Well Senna suspected Schumacher's Benetton B194 had TC/LC and was driving out of his skin to make up for the difference. He noticed that it sounded and behaved differently (to even Verstappen's B194) while he watched them circulating from the wall after retiring at Aida (the second race of the year).

I don't need to go on about it, but you get the point.

Where does Prost come into this? Well, the Podcast goes into how Senna was on the telephone with Prost during that time talking, among other things, about that precise matter.

If Senna said that Schumi's car was using a form of TC, then personally I'd believe him. Prost believed Senna too. There aren't exactly any better qualified people to know such a thing. One thing I must say, however, is that despite the fact that Senna was trying to make up the difference through his own driving to keep up with Schumacher, I don't think this had anything to do with his death, something that a few twisted people (in my opinion) seem to think. Tamburello is not a corner that should worry an F1 car, even back then.

There was no greater expert on the sights and sounds of a Formula One car at Aida that day than Senna himself...And if his expert ears and eyes noted that only Schumacher's B194 sounded and reacted like it had traction control then i'm going to believe it. Period.

As per the accident at Tamburello...well, the saftey car that day wasn't exactly a Mercedes-Benz AMG...I believe it was an Opel and, as a result, a bit 'too' slow. The tyre pressures dropped significantly and that would have affected the ride height. Tamburello had a few bumps and when they went flat out again right after the SC pulled in, there's a reasonable chance the ride height wasn't what Senna would have imagined it to be.

[Safety Cars were a newer phenomenon in Formula One back then too, by the way. They were first properly introduced the year before (1993) and used only in two Grand Prix races.

They made many rule changes after that race, including making sure Safety Cars were faster so as to ensure tyre pressures didn't fall off significantly.]

Regardless, what are CTA members' memories and thoughts of Senna?

Mine were mixed. I thought he was immense and the fastest since Villeneuve ... but a bully. I was never his biggest fan primarily because his on track tactics at times bordered on insanity. Whereas Villeneuve risked his own life mainly, Senna didn't seem to have a problem with risking other drivers' lives while he was taking chances with his own.

Having said that, i'd rate the Brazilian thus All Time:

1= Senna
1= Prost
3. Clark
4. Fangio
5. Schumacher
6= Stewart
6= Moss

What are your thoughts and memories of the man and the driver?

 

[Fenderman]

 

[Johnny Carwash]

Can't believe that it 19 years ago today that Ayrton Senna died.

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

If ony Seb had quoted Ayrton after Malaysia ... rather than his typical warbling unstoppable predisposition to explain every little thing that happened to HIM during a lap, race, etc...

"You must take the compromise to win, or else nothing. That means: you race or you do not"
"I am not designed to come second or third, I am designed to win"

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/ayrton_senna.html

 

[Blog Zbod]

Ayrton Senna Demanded in Written to be Lotus's No. 1 Driver, Shows 1987 Contract

...[H]e demanded in written to be the No.1 driver, with the priority to choose parts. He won a bonus for points and was promised a prize if he won the title. He wasn't obliged to participate in the advertising campaign of the cigarette brand that sponsored the team and was forbidden from practicing extreme sports. For fiscal reasons, he promised to move out of England....

 

[Incubus]

*Warning, anoraky comment to follow*

I was amused to read the part about Ayrton being contractually prevented rom riding motorbikes... the 1986-87 edition of Autocourse has in its back pages a pic of him about to ride one on his way to (or from) his hotel room.

Maybe Ayrton was no great respecter of contracts when their terms didn't suit him, as Alex Hawkridge (Toleman team principal) would tell you.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I don't think that Ayrton was a great respecter of anything much, he may have been a great racer (Even in racing he pulled off some pretty dubious moves at times.) but that doesn't mean he was a great person in every manner of things, just like everyone else he had his bad points, he certainly isn't a deity....

 

[RasputinLives]

Did a massive amount for charity though which tends to tip the scales over to decent bloke in my thinking.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Yes he did, for the poor in his native country, I tip my hat to that....

 

[cider_and_toast]

The thing to remember about his 1987 contract was the fact that the Lotus boss, Peter Warr, would have fed his own grandmother to a a rabid lion to keep Senna in the team for that season. It did look at one point that he would leave at the end of 86 for a new team but Senna, knew his worth while at the same time having some loyalty to the team he was with.The being number 1 was never an issue as, in order to help ensure a supply of Honda engines, Lotus took on Nakajima Snr.

Senna entered into negotiations with Lotus for 1988 but knowing full well he held the cards, the retainer he wanted for 1988 was far more than Lotus could afford.

 

[Blog Zbod]

*Warning, anoraky comment to follow*

I was amused to read the part about Ayrton being contractually prevented rom riding motorbikes... the 1986-87 edition of Autocourse has in its back pages a pic of him about to ride one on his way to (or from) his hotel room.

Maybe Ayrton was no great respecter of contracts when their terms didn't suit him, as Alex Hawkridge (Toleman team principal) would tell you.

Senna clearly held an unshakeable confidence in his motor skills and no fear for his mortal soul. He exemplified the belief that when the stonemason chisels the dates of birth and death onto your headstone, the only part that matters is the little dash between them.

 

[Bushi]

Don't know if this has been posted yet.
A ghost lap of Senna at Suzuka:

 

[Greenlantern101]

That was around the whole lap at Suzuka? how many speakers, amplifiers, miles of cable etc did that need. Mental...in a good way.

 

[teabagyokel]

Greenlantern101 - Probably less at Suzuka considering the compactness of the venue.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I've never really bought into the Senna sensationalism, greatest driver thingy most of the time he was arrogant and the rest of the time a cheat, with bits of brilliance thrown in for good measure, but then I didn't rate Prost all that much either, or Mansell, they simply raced at probably the most exiting time in F1's history when sparks were flying and turbos where blowing and so they became memorable but not always for the right reasons...

And that's me saying it as I see it....

 

[teabagyokel]

Senna was about so much more than the driver, there was a cult of personality which should be quite uncomfortable. Few call Senna's relentless pole-grabbing and sometimes winning from the front dull, although that hasn't carried over to other drivers.

He never really beat Prost. His victory in 1988 highlighted a flaw of the scoring system soon rectified, and it is that which suggests GOAT status has insubstantial evidence.

 

[FB]

Senna was a fabulous racing driver but a flawed human being. His untimely death has raised him to the level of saint hood which probably isn't deserved but then witness the number of people who go to visit the grave of Jim Morrison in Paris, the fat, drunk, screeching knob end that he was. I should like to point out that I went to the Pere Lachaise Cemetery to pay homage at the grave of Oscar Wilde and just happened to pass Morrison's grave, so there!

 

[The Artist.....]

I should like to point out that I went to the Pere Lachaise Cemetery to pay homage at the grave of Oscar Wilde and just happened to pass Morrison's grave, so there!

Yes, we believe you... Thousands wouldn't

 

[Blog Zbod]

I have to lump Senna in with Dale Earnhardt. It evidences a deep character flaw that someone with such undeniable talents would resort to such thuggish behaviour on the circuit. Not cricket.

...witness the number of people who go to visit the grave of Jim Morrison in Paris, the fat, drunk, screeching knob end that he was. I should like to point out that I went to the Pere Lachaise Cemetery to pay homage at the grave of Oscar Wilde and just happened to pass Morrison's grave, so there!

I suspect my priest would prescribe a lesser penance for seeking out Morrison's grave than Wilde's. Wilde also was a drunk, but Morrison was neither a poof nor a paedophile.

What sort of man inspires his followers to create for him a burial tomb prominently featuring a John Thomas? And what sort of deviant thinks a cemetery a fit place to teach children about reproductive anatomy? Paris' gendarmes originally considered Wilde's tomb too lewd (Too lewd? For Paris? Sacré bleu! ) so cemetery management added a modesty plaque. Then some students objecting to the censorship removed the plaque, but also broke off the underlying marriage tackle in the doing. Which is why the monument to Wilde remains emasculated to this day.

Come to think of it, Wilde and Morrison both remind me of James Hunt in that all three are as infamous (or moreso) for their debauchery as they are famous for their accomplishments.

 

[FB]

Rather read the camp ramblings of Wilde's than listen to Morrison's cat-a-walling any day. And yes, I do realise Oscar Wilde was hardly a paragon of virtue I just wanted to have a pop at Jim Morrison as he was a knob.

By the way, it really is the "graveyard of the rich and famous". Also saw the graves of Edith Piaf, Marcel Marso (approximate spelling), Yves Montand and Voldermort (at least he looks like him).

 

[Mephistopheles]

This is all very fascinating stuff and yes Wilde was a "Poof." (Not a word I would have chosen to use and it doesn't make him a bad person.) but it was only alleged that he was a pedophile which is not the same as actually being one.

But this has naff all to do with Ayrton Senna...