Grand Prix 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

[The Pits]

Red Bulls argument was that where it says "any cars" it does not necessarily mean "all cars" which to be fair is bullshit in itself. What could have been dangerous is if cars were trying to overtake the lead cars in the train when the safety car was pulling in.

 

[Brogan]

will be required

That is the most important part in my opinion.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Red Bulls argument was that where it says "any cars" it does not necessarily mean "all cars" which to be fair is bullshit in itself. What could have been dangerous is if cars were trying to overtake the lead cars in the train when the safety car was pulling in.

Yeah, that's absolute bollocks and here's what the rules state on who can unlap themselves:

"This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed.

Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap."

So all cars that have been lapped when the safety car has crossed the first safety car line on its second lap, can un-lap themselves. Not one, two or three, all cars that meet that criteria.

Once the last lapped car (not the third, fourth or fifth) has passed the leader the safety car will pull in at the end of the next lap.

i can't see how it can be anything other than an open and shut case against the FIA?

MInd you, they invented a new version of the rules for the Belgium farce when it came to racing laps behind the safety car, claiming that the in lap was also a racing lap even though the lead car never crossed the finish line for a third time before the race was red flagged.

 

[Il_leone]

I did not get this woke culture but there is an online petition to get Michael Masi removed as race director on change.org

This guy is going to ruin F1 through incompetence and turn this into the WwE . Wait I think we have our own Montreal screwjob

 

[Brogan]

Whatever happens the WDC is tainted.

Verstappen's maiden WDC will forever be associated with a race director who changed the rules to favour him.

Hamilton's 8th WDC would be the first in history to be decided in a court months after the result was declared and the legitimacy of it would be questioned because he finished behind Verstappen.

However, the latter will never happen - the result will stand.

 

[cider_and_toast]

I think it has nothing to do with Woke culture (all though I believe you mean "cancel culture") and everything to do with the fact that Michael Masi couldn't run a tap without getting his trousers wet.

 

[Il_leone]

The race needs to be renamed the Abu Dhabi Screwjob in homage to the Montreal Screwjob

 

[F1Brits_90]

It's as if the Ref in a football match opts to give a player already on a yellow card, half a yellow instead of a full one to prevent him being sent

we have seen that many times, where youll never see a goalkeeper get a 2nd yellow for timewasting even though its a bookable a offence. or booked defender not getting a yellow because it wasnt bad enough to be sent off

 

[F1Brits_90]

Russell isnt sitting on the fence

 

[cider_and_toast]

That's the sort of support for Mercedes that could land you a drive with team.

 

[Tuscan1969]

Yeah, that's absolute bollocks and here's what the rules state on who can unlap themselves:

"This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed.

Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap."

So all cars that have been lapped when the safety car has crossed the first safety car line on its second lap, can un-lap themselves. Not one, two or three, all cars that meet that criteria.

Once the last lapped car (not the third, fourth or fifth) has passed the leader the safety car will pull in at the end of the next lap.

i can't see how it can be anything other than an open and shut case against the FIA?

MInd you, they invented a new version of the rules for the Belgium farce when it came to racing laps behind the safety car, claiming that the in lap was also a racing lap even though the lead car never crossed the finish line for a third time before the race was red flagged.

A perfect summation. I too can't see how FUA can argue that this is acceptable unless there is a precedent where a race was run and not all lapped drivers unlapped themselves?????

Otherwise you allow Massi to decide which drivers or teams get to unlap themselves and potentially score a point or two wereaes he could conceivable argue that it her drivers cannot unlap themselves and thus do not get a scoring opportunity. That fundamentally means the rules do not apply equally to all but only apply at the discretion of Massi.

Unacceptable unless it is WWF and not F1 anymore.

 

[The Artist.....]

Could we also talk about the bias from the stewards. The decision not to even investigate the turn 5 (lap 1) incident really stunk yesterday - particularly given the precedent that had occurred just one week earlier.

i don’t know if anyone else heard it, but Derek Warwick had been interviewed on BBC radio 4 news before the race, and he’d been eulogising about Hamilton. It does seem very odd for a referee to be singling out one driver for praise before the race, particularly when a controversial decision gets awarded his way during the race. In football, if a referee eulogised about the team they were due to officiate (“Man Utd are such an example to the rest of the sport about how to play fair’), they would be replaced.

 

[Hamberg]

Their argument is that article 48.13 overrides 48.12.

This isn’t an explicit nor an implied application of the rules. In fact where other rules do override this is called out quite clearly such as 48.14.

 

[FB]

Cricket had to go to "neutral" umpires after various incidents. With hindsight, it would have made more sense not to have a British person as the driver steward at this race.

However, the incident with Lewis and Max on lap 1 was another one of those where Max braked so late he was never going to make the corner on a normal racing line and Lewis had no option other than to go off the track or be hit by the Red Bull. This all goes back to Brazil, where poor stewarding gave Verstappen the go ahead to make moves which if the other driver doesn't "get out of the way" will result in them crashing. He's not the first driver to play this game, but had he been reprimanded in Brazil he might have thought better of doing it again in any of the following races.

 

[FB]

Two other questions:

Do we know why Red Bull retired Perez? There is a rumour he was running on low fuel to make sure he could get in Hamilton's way at some point, which he did very successfully.

Why aren't Ferrari up in arms about the lapped cars between Sainz and Versatppen being allowed to overtake as there was a good chance Carlos could have had a go at the Red Bull if there weren't cars in between them.

You know, I thought that Lewis would probably retire if he won the title this weekend. I can imagine that he will want to come back stronger next season to take that 8th title and put Max back in his box. Here's something I never thought I would say, but I hope Mercedes build a car that simply runs away from the rest of the field next season and Lewis has won the title by Hungary.

 

[The Artist.....]

However, the incident with Lewis and Max on lap 1 was another one of those where Max braked so late he was never going to make the corner on a normal racing line and Lewis had no option other than to go off the track or be hit by the Red Bull. This all goes back to Brazil, where poor stewarding gave Verstappen the go ahead to make moves which if the other driver doesn't "get out of the way" will result in them crashing. He's not the first driver to play this game, but had he been reprimanded in Brazil he might have thought better of doing it again in any of the following races.

FB - I tend to agree about this - I've been calling out the sort of move where one driver is forced off the track for years. Hamilton has become a sublime artist in this, but it has bitten him several times (for example Monza, Valencia 2012) when the other driver did not back out of it, when squeezed off the circuit. Similarly at Bahrain in 2014. Of course, Hamilton is not the only driver who does this, but I think he is the most artistic at it.

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

Their argument is that article 48.13 overrides 48.12.

This isn’t an explicit nor an implied application of the rules. In fact where other rules do override this is called out quite clearly such as 48.14.

And 15.3(e) overrides all of them.

The clerk of the course shall work in permanent consultation with the Race Director. The Race Director shall have overriding authority in the following matters and the clerk of the course may give orders in respect of them only with his express agreement:
e) The use of the safety car.

Also I don't quite understand why everyone in the media refers to the regs as 48.12/13 because the copy on the FIA site has these under 39.12/13! Maybe this is an old copy or there's an appendix in this document.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2021_formula_1_sporting_regulations_-_iss_5_-_2020-12-16.pdf

 

[Il_leone]

Cricket had to go to "neutral" umpires after various incidents. With hindsight, it would have made more sense not to have a British person as the driver steward at this race.

However, the incident with Lewis and Max on lap 1 was another one of those where Max braked so late he was never going to make the corner on a normal racing line and Lewis had no option other than to go off the track or be hit by the Red Bull. This all goes back to Brazil, where poor stewarding gave Verstappen the go ahead to make moves which if the other driver doesn't "get out of the way" will result in them crashing. He's not the first driver to play this game, but had he been reprimanded in Brazil he might have thought better of doing it again in any of the following races.

My thoughts was on Cricket I remember the South Africans "Scumboks" as the Sun labelled them bullied the umpire to use the 3rd umpire after he gave not out. It was written in the regulations that players could not do that but the umpire gave in

This is what happened yesterday with Masi. Or equivalent telling everyone there is 5 minutes of additional time then Man U demand and ask for more time

It's the Abu Dhabi Screwjob to think it of it someone needs to punch Christian Horner and Michale Masi Wwe style because that is what they did

.....

Lap 1 incident Verstappen has done the same thing in the past Mexico 2018 where he took to the grass and did not give the place back

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

Cricket had to go to "neutral" umpires after various incidents. With hindsight, it would have made more sense not to have a British person as the driver steward at this race.

However, the incident with Lewis and Max on lap 1 was another one of those where Max braked so late he was never going to make the corner on a normal racing line and Lewis had no option other than to go off the track or be hit by the Red Bull. This all goes back to Brazil, where poor stewarding gave Verstappen the go ahead to make moves which if the other driver doesn't "get out of the way" will result in them crashing. He's not the first driver to play this game, but had he been reprimanded in Brazil he might have thought better of doing it again in any of the following races.

But it was a clean and legal overtake. Lewis left the door wide open.

 

[Il_leone]

Would Mercedes not appeal if they were offered that Masi will be sacked