Grand Prix 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

[Il_leone]

Two other questions:

Do we know why Red Bull retired Perez? There is a rumour he was running on low fuel to make sure he could get in Hamilton's way at some point, which he did very successfully.

Why aren't Ferrari up in arms about the lapped cars between Sainz and Versatppen being allowed to overtake as there was a good chance Carlos could have had a go at the Red Bull if there weren't cars in between them.

You know, I thought that Lewis would probably retire if he won the title this weekend. I can imagine that he will want to come back stronger next season to take that 8th title and put Max back in his box. Here's something I never thought I would say, but I hope Mercedes build a car that simply runs away from the rest of the field next season and Lewis has won the title by Hungary.

I was getting to that point if Mclaren and Ferrari were fighting for 3rd in the constructors why did not whoever was 4th say something that they could not catch up to Sainz?

 

[F1Brits_90]

Could we also talk about the bias from the stewards. The decision not to even investigate the turn 5 (lap 1) incident really stunk yesterday - particularly given the precedent that had occurred just one week earlier.

i agree that extremely strange to have british steward at this race, it shouldve been of a neutral country, but for me that was Verstappen desperation, the move was on but, he braked at 50m, how can anyone expect to slow down from 200mph at any circuit & im sure if we go through the telemetry for 95% of his laps, he would have braked at 100m even on his qualifying lap

it was spain, imola & brazil just slinging it in the corner & using lewis as a brake

 

[sobriety]

I thought that move by Verstappen was right on the limit of fair, as he did manage to get the car stopped and around the corner within the limits of the track. Hamilton just did what Verstappen has been doing all season and gunned it through the run off before slowing down a bit.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Did you know, the Drivers steward in Brazil who decided that it's perfectly fine to run a driver wide and make no attempt to hit the apex of a corner was Vitantonio Liuzzi.

Who's he you ask? A Red Bull junior driver and former Red Bull and Toro Rosso driver.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Do we know why Red Bull retired Perez?

I've heard similar however I think it's more likely they detected an issue and didn't want him stopping on track and risking extending the safety car or a VSC.

If you were going to short fuel a driver it would more likely be about 75 percent of the race not 95 percent.

 

[The Artist.....]

but for me that was Verstappen desperation, the move was on but, he braked at 50m, how can anyone expect to slow down from 200mph at any circuit & im sure if we go through the telemetry for 95% of his laps, he would have braked at 100m even on his qualifying lap

it was spain, imola & brazil just slinging it in the corner & using lewis as a brake

But he did get it stopped, and didn't touch Hamilton.

 

[The Artist.....]

If you were going to short fuel a driver it would more likely be about 75 percent of the race not 95 percent.

That's what I was thinking - if they had short-fuelled Perez they would have given him so little that he could actually have jumped ahead of Hamilton at the start and then interfered.

Had they fuelled him for 40 laps (instead of 58), then (at about 0.1 seconds per lap of fuel around Abu Dhabi), he could have overtaken Hamilton, and then held him up to allow Verstappen to scamper into the distance.

The fact that he just dropped away tells its own story.

 

[cider_and_toast]

But he did get it stopped, and didn't touch Hamilton.

But it was another "move or crash" overtake. The only reason he did get stopped was because he straight lined the corner. Had he made a serious attempt to turn in he would have ran way wide. He simply kept the car straight giving him the width of the corner as extra track to bring the car to a slow enough rate to turn it.

This action was taken with zero regards to Hamilton's position on the track. The only reason they didn't touch is because Hamilton was forced to open out and drive around Verstappen.

 

[Titch]

As far as I’m concerned Verstappen is a thoroughly unpleasant driver, he may be talented, and he may win multiple championships, but I will never like him.

 

[sobriety]

There's a thought on stewarding, the easiest approach when these things happen is to ask:

If there had been no run off on the outside, would there have been a crash?

If there would have been a crash, whose fault would it have been?

The driver who exited the corner in the lead - swap places
The driver who exited the corner behind - no need to swap

Which on reflection, is just "always you leave da space" in a more official way.

 

[F1Brits_90]

But he did get it stopped, and didn't touch Hamilton.

but only because like imola, spain & brazil. hamilton did his best to make sure both drivers where still there. you can brake from 50m, a the laws of physics only go so far

 

[The Artist.....]

This action was taken with zero regards to Hamilton's position on the track. The only reason they didn't touch is because Hamilton was forced to open out and drive around Verstappen.

I think the issue is that there have been so many cases where Hamilton has done the same to another driver (even Monza this year was a case of Verstappen forced off the track by Hamilton) - that you either need to be consistent and say that all drivers who gain or keep a place by running off the track need to give back the place, or you penalise all drivers who force another driver off the track.

As I said earlier, Hamilton has made an art of squeezing other drivers off the track. Verstappen, Rosberg, and others have tried to replicate this, but have almost always made it look clumsy. The only example I can think of Verstappen looking as elegant as Hamilton was in Imola at the start of the season.

 

[F1Brits_90]

sleeping on it, Michael Masi will live or die by the quote "we had a motor race" as it seemed to be the straw the camel back & the time he was sick of all 2 principals moaning

 

[Hamberg]

And 15.3(e) overrides all of them.

The clerk of the course shall work in permanent consultation with the Race Director. The Race Director shall have overriding authority in the following matters and the clerk of the course may give orders in respect of them only with his express agreement:
e) The use of the safety car.

Surely that’s just referring to how to use it to ensure safety, I don’t think changing the regulations to create excitement is within the spirit of the rules, which is something the FIA frown upon.

There is a later version of the regulations here

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2021_formula_1_sporting_regulations_-_iss_13_-_2021-12-08.pdf

 

[Hamberg]

sleeping on it, Michael Masi will live or die by the quote "we had a motor race" as it seemed to be the straw the camel back & the time he was sick of all 2 principals moaning

I found it interesting reading comments from non F1 fans that tuned in for this one.
One described the situation as a team being 10-0 up and the referee declaring next goal wins.
Well that’s something we’ve come to live with with safety car situations which when you think about it like that is a bit ridiculous.

The difference here is he gave Max a penalty.
That wasn’t motor racing. It certainly wasn’t a fair motor racing.

 

[F1Brits_90]

One described the situation as a team being 10-0 up and the referee declaring next goal wins.

thats a very good point. it would be interesting to hear from masi today in what he thinks now & whether he wouldve done anything different in calmness of hindsight. as he was inexperienced & didnt have wealth of knowledge that Charlie Whiting had

 

[The Artist.....]

The difference here is he gave Max a penalty.
That wasn’t motor racing. It certainly wasn’t a fair motor racing.

True, but there shouldn't be something special about the final race - all the points are just as important...

Masi's biggest failure was that he procrastinated about allowing the lapped cars to pass. I can't think of another occasion where lapped cars haven't been allowed to pass - which would have set another new precedent. Masi was trying to be his fairest to allow the championship to be decided under green flag conditions.

However, the track was clear a lap earlier, and he should have allowed the cars to pass then. If the track couldn't be cleared to allow the race to end under green flags, they should have stopped the race.

 

[Hamberg]

100% agree The Artist.....
I don’t think there was any bias in what Masi did, I think he panicked under the pressure and got it very, very wrong.

 

[sobriety]

Yeah, one must never assume malice where incompetence will suffice, although neither is a good look.

 

[The Artist.....]

Hamberg - I tend to agree. The obvious thing to do would have been to stop the race (a la Baku) and then have a 4 lap shootout at the end. (Can you imagine how Hollywood that would have been!)

Given the procrastination from Masi though, by the time he actually made a decision, it was too late:

• Had he left the 5 cars between Hamilton and Verstappen, then Red Bull could rightly have complained that there was no precedent for that
• Had he not restarted the race, then Red Bull could rightly have complained that the track was clear, and they were stopped from competing
• Having waved some cars through, Mercedes can argue that Verstappen was put too close to Hamilton

Being honest, half of the problems emerge from the safety car procedure being too cumbersome, and designed to try to wipe out any advantage. The "let lapped cars" through is a farce - and frankly, I would simply move them to the back of the train (make them drive through the pitlane). This would be a much faster way to get the cars back racing. I also think it's ridiculous that the safety car can only pull into the pitlane. Again, it would make much more sense to have the safety car pull in at one of (several) stopping points around the circuit - say just before the sector timing points - then racing could restart at the beginning of the sector.