The mad max side pod from above.
Pre-Season 2016 Car Launches and Testing.
- Thread starter Greenlantern101
- Start date
Reminds me of the blades on a ride on horse drawn mower that my father-in-law uses behind his Shire horses. Staggering level of aero and CAD work looks like it's gone into making that.
Looking at the morning time sheets, the McLaren may be slow but it hasn't blown up yet. Even if they just keep it at that stage then it is a more stable platform on which to develop. It's very hard to make a car go faster if it only lasts for a handful of laps.
Today's final times:
1. Sebastian Vettel Germany Ferrari-Ferrari 126 laps 1m 22.810s
2. Daniel Ricciardo Australia Red Bull-TAG-Heuer 112 laps 1m 23.525s
3. Sergio Perez Mexico Force India-Mercedes 101 laps 1m 23.650s
4. Nico Rosberg Germany Mercedes-Mercedes 172 laps 1m 24.867s
5. Marcus Ericsson Sweden Sauber-Ferrari 108 laps 1m 25.237*
6. Esteban Gutierrez Mexico Haas-Ferrari 79 laps 1m 25.524s
7. Valtteri Bottas Finland Williams-Mercedes 134 laps 1m 25.648s
8. Pascal Wehrlein Germany MRT-Mercedes 71 laps 1m 25.925s
9. Fernando Alonso Spain McLaren-Honda 119 laps 1m 26.082s
10. Jolyon Palmer Britain Renault-Renault 42 laps 1m 26.189s
11. Max Verstappen Netherlands Toro Rosso-Ferrari 121 laps 1m 26.539s
*denotes 2015 Sauber
So once again Merc pound through a lot of laps and once again Ferrari are quickest. Not 100% sure of tyres and weather conditions but Manor are 3 seconds faster than yesterday which shows promise for them.
Lots of laps by Torro Rosso and Mclaren but not a lot of speed suggest they Need and Williams were all concentrating on long runs.
Having a brand new team like Haas actually get a car out the garage and putting in 79 laps is very refreshing and promising.
You still have to worry for that Renault though. Slowest and least laps.
1. Sebastian Vettel Germany Ferrari-Ferrari 126 laps 1m 22.810s
2. Daniel Ricciardo Australia Red Bull-TAG-Heuer 112 laps 1m 23.525s
3. Sergio Perez Mexico Force India-Mercedes 101 laps 1m 23.650s
4. Nico Rosberg Germany Mercedes-Mercedes 172 laps 1m 24.867s
5. Marcus Ericsson Sweden Sauber-Ferrari 108 laps 1m 25.237*
6. Esteban Gutierrez Mexico Haas-Ferrari 79 laps 1m 25.524s
7. Valtteri Bottas Finland Williams-Mercedes 134 laps 1m 25.648s
8. Pascal Wehrlein Germany MRT-Mercedes 71 laps 1m 25.925s
9. Fernando Alonso Spain McLaren-Honda 119 laps 1m 26.082s
10. Jolyon Palmer Britain Renault-Renault 42 laps 1m 26.189s
11. Max Verstappen Netherlands Toro Rosso-Ferrari 121 laps 1m 26.539s
*denotes 2015 Sauber
So once again Merc pound through a lot of laps and once again Ferrari are quickest. Not 100% sure of tyres and weather conditions but Manor are 3 seconds faster than yesterday which shows promise for them.
Lots of laps by Torro Rosso and Mclaren but not a lot of speed suggest they Need and Williams were all concentrating on long runs.
Having a brand new team like Haas actually get a car out the garage and putting in 79 laps is very refreshing and promising.
You still have to worry for that Renault though. Slowest and least laps.
That would explain the full 2 seconds back to Rosberg then! I would have to assume Manor were because the best lap of 1:28 was set in the supersofts yesterday. If they've jumped tons 1:25 on harder rubber then they seriously found some speed in the car!
Spinodontosaurus
Points Scorer
Day 2 standings from the Autosport live feed:
I hope McLaren have something big up their sleeve, track-side footage I've seen showed Alonso consistently trashing the hell out of it and they're still nowhere. The car also sounds ...odd, I like it.
Manor found a lot of pace but look where they are at in the standings - closely matched with Haas, Renault and a 2015 Sauber, but 2 seconds behind Mercedes despite running a softer tyre compound. If the Soft tyre gives you about a second per lap that puts Manor ~2.5% off, which is round about where Sauber were last season. But then I suppose nobody expected anything more than that to begin with, and it's a hell of a lot better than last year.
I hope McLaren have something big up their sleeve, track-side footage I've seen showed Alonso consistently trashing the hell out of it and they're still nowhere. The car also sounds ...odd, I like it.
Manor found a lot of pace but look where they are at in the standings - closely matched with Haas, Renault and a 2015 Sauber, but 2 seconds behind Mercedes despite running a softer tyre compound. If the Soft tyre gives you about a second per lap that puts Manor ~2.5% off, which is round about where Sauber were last season. But then I suppose nobody expected anything more than that to begin with, and it's a hell of a lot better than last year.
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I don't think so. Autosport article was pretty troubling for McLaren fans:
Why Honda progress isn't enough
McLaren-Honda is clearly in much better shape than it was 12 months ago, but in F1 you have to make gains faster than your rivals or you're still falling behind.
By Ben Anderson
Grand Prix editor
The contrast between the start McLaren-Honda has made to the 2016 Formula 1 season and last year's woeful pre-season efforts at Jerez couldn't be starker.
Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button competed 12 laps between them on the opening two days of testing in 2015, lapping more than 18 seconds off the pace at best.
The Honda-powered MP4-30 was woefully unreliable and diabolically slow from the off, and though improvement came eventually, this set the tone for arguably the toughest season in McLaren's illustrious history.
Alonso managed 119 laps on day two of this week's opening Barcelona test of 2016, following Button's count of 84 amassed on Monday. That represents a 1592 per cent increase for McLaren-Honda in the space of 12 months!
The fact Alonso was not the slowest runner on the second day of this pre-season, and in fact was a much more respectable 3.272s adrift of Sebastian Vettel's benchmark (set on a tyre compound two steps softer) also represents real progress.
But Formula 1 is not simply about progress. It's a given that if you don't progress, you don't survive. What truly matters is the rate of progress you make compared to your rivals. Develop faster than them and you will succeed; develop too slowly and you will be left behind, even though you are objectively better than before.
McLaren joined forces with Honda to return to the status of a works team, without which it feels winning in F1 under the present rules is impossible, but it has been continually frustrated by the pace of Honda's re-adaptation to F1 and the speed of its reactions in recovering the ground lost to that poor start in 2015.
Remember too that Honda announced its return to F1 in 2013 and had a year of preparation away from the circuits before joining the party...
Honda has undoubtedly made progress following the travails of last year. It has worked to solve the severe ERS weaknesses that compromised its competitiveness, specifically by redesigning the compressor that was compromising the ability of its MGU-H and turbo assembly to recover heat energy from the combustion process.
Ferrari showed us last year what can be done in relatively short order, transforming what was comfortably the worst engine in 2014 into the second best last year.
It's early days, but Honda does not appear to have made progress to a similar order of magnitude. The ERS is certainly better, but overall performance is still some way from where it needs to be.
After the first morning of running on Monday, McLaren-Honda racing director Eric Boullier said he could only talk about how well the MP4-31 was working from a chassis perspective.
"As far as I'm concerned, I'm in charge of the chassis part, and drivers - on this part we are trying to be on target," he said. "As far as the engine part is concerned, you need to ask Honda.
"We will win when we have the best drivers, the best chassis, the best team, the best car, and the best engine."
After driving the new car for a whole day, Button declared that more work was required on the new power unit.
"[On] deployment we've made a good step forward, but with the power unit we've a lot of work still," he said. "They [Honda] have done a good job on reliability and pushing the deployment very hard over the winter, but I don't think any of us will be happy going to Melbourne with the power unit."
At the end of the second day of running, Alonso talked about how it was possible for McLaren to develop the best chassis after the early races of the new season, but did not say the same of the engine.
"The target is to have the best car," he said. "The best chassis is reachable, something very possible, maybe by the European races."
This all suggests McLaren's major players place a greater degree of confidence in the chassis potential than in that of the engine.
Honda has made important changes, but do they go far enough? Has it reacted quickly enough to the harsh lessons of last season in order to whip itself properly into shape for this coming campaign?
The jury is still out.
"Honestly, after just two days we don't have the expectations of where our standard is," says Honda's current F1 chief Yasuhisa Arai. "It's too early. After testing we will go to Australia and find out our standard.
"You know that last year was a very, very difficult season, especially the winter testing. Comparing to last year, it's much better.
"It's too early to totally confirm the dyno [numbers] in quite different conditions. We have to check carefully and confirm the dyno data with yesterday and today."
News that Arai will step down at the end of this month at first glance suggests there has at least been a seismic shift in Honda's approach to F1.
In appointing Yasuke Hasegawa to take over Arai's responsibilities for the F1 operation, Honda has promoted a guy with previous F1 experience, unlike Arai.
Hasegawa was a systems engineer at BAR-Honda and rose to become engineering director of the previous Honda F1 project, which ran until the end of 2008.
He will also take on a streamlined role, focusing purely on F1, with none of the extra responsibilities for Japanese domestic motorsport and managing Honda's Sakura R&D facility that Arai had to balance with his F1 duties.
The hope is that this will streamline communication and allow for faster reaction times, which should help address the some of the cultural and structural issues that McLaren feels have compromised the overall project's rate of development so far.
The fact Arai will step down is not really significant in itself. He is 59 years old and next year will reach the mandatory retirement age for Honda workers.
The structural change is far more important, whereby Hasegawa will focus solely on F1, under the supervision of Honda's new R&D president Yoshiyuki Matsumoto.
That's one person fully focused on F1 with another keeping an eye on things, instead of just one man dividing his time between three responsibilities. That can only accelerate the rate of development. Eventually.
But would Arai would have been kept on if he were younger, given Honda's struggles last year? He certainly feels that he has done his job in setting up Honda's current F1 project in the first instance, and he believes Hasegawa is the right person to take things to the next level.
"We did as much [as we could] quickly last year, but it was not enough," Arai says. "In Japanese corporate culture, you learn and you are groomed within the company, so they tend to move you around different departments without explanation. We don't really question it. That may be a big difference in culture [to Europe].
"The strengthening of Honda's F1 project in total is just more commitment from Honda. It's good timing. Hasegawa-san will take over my role and he will accelerate. I trust his acceleration. [He is] maybe more competitive and faster than me!"
Regardless, these changes, though a welcome step in the right direction, could already have come too late to make a substantial difference to McLaren's chances of rising up the grid this season.
Arai has already settled the development direction for this year's engine, the basic specification of which will be frozen at the end of the month, so it will be difficult to make significant changes (in-season token development notwithstanding) if Honda has headed down the wrong path over the winter.
"Arai-san has already made the decision for this year of update plans for the engine," explains Hasegawa. "At this moment I just have to follow his plan.
"Maybe sooner or later I can put some of my ideas, but at this moment I have to follow through on his plan, for the next couple of months."
There is also the fact that Arai has helped choose his own successor, which may impact on the pace of progress. Hasegawa is described as a protege of Arai, having worked under him before Hasegawa's first adventure in F1 from 2002-08.
There will surely be a degree of deceleration during the transition period, and Hasegawa - seven years Arai's junior - could be overly influenced by the methods of his mentor, which have not proved to be an unqualified success.
However quickly Hasegawa is able to get up to speed in his new role, it seems Honda may well not be ready to translate its organisational change into real technical progress until the second half of this season at the earliest.
By that stage, rivals will be pressing ahead unabated and unencumbered by any bedding-in period for new leadership.
The burning question is how long can McLaren continue to wait for Honda to get properly on the pace, at all levels, before it really is too late.
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There is a comparison on the BBC F1 testing site giving a comparison between the fastest times of Ferrari and Mercedes on Tuesday. Vettel was 2 seconds quicker but on super-soft tyres as against Rosberg's mediums, also Vettel did his on a 3 lap run against Rosberg's 17. Assuming each had the minimum fuel to complete these runs they come up with Mercedes being 0.8 seconds faster. They do have a disclaimer on this as not being a total comparison but even so it looks like it could be a Groundhog Year.
snowy
Champion Elect
Kvyat (medium):
Outlap - 1:32.3 - 1:31.6 - 1:31.6 - 1:31.6 - 1:31.9 - 1:31.7 - 1:31.9 - 1:31.6 - 1:31.7 - 1:32.0 - 1:31.8 - 1:32.0 - 1:32.1 - 1:31.8 - 1:31.6 - Inlap
Sainz (medium):
Outlap - 1:26.2 - 1:27.0 - 1:27.5 - 1:27.4 - 1:27.7 - 1:27.8 - 1:28.4 - 1:29.0 - 1:28.4 - 1:28.4 - 1:28.7 - 1:28.5 - 1:28.7 - 1:28.9 - 1:28.8 - 1:28.7 - 1:29.0 - Inlap
Rosberg (medium):
Outlap - 1:30.9 - 1:26.6 - 1:27.2 - 1:27.4 - 1:30.4 - 1:27.9 - 1:27.6 - 1:28.0 - 1:27.9 - 1:27.9 - 1:28.1 - 1:27.8 - 1:27.8 - 1:27.9 - 1:27.9 - Inlap
hamilton (mediums)
Outlap - 1:26.8 - 1:27.4 - 1:27.2 - 1:28.3 - 1:28.0 - 1:28.1 - 1:28.4 - 1:28.1 - 1:27.8 - 1:27.8 - 1:30.0 - 1:28.8 - 1:28.9 - 1:29.3 - 1:30.5
Magnussen (soft):
Outlap - 1:26.0 - 1:26.6 - 1:28.2 - 1:28.3 - 1:28.5 - 1:29.3 - 1:29.3 - 1:30.0 - Inlap
Massa (soft):
Outlap - 1:29.7 - 1:29.7 - 1:30.4 - 1:31.3 - 1:32.3 - 1:32.3 - 1:32.6 - 1:33.2 - 1:33.4 - 1:33.4 - 1:33.9 - 1:34.3 - 1:34.6 - Inlap
sainz last run on (medium)
1:27.1 - 1:28.0 - 1:28.2 - 1:28.5 - 1:29.0 - 1:29.1 - 1:28.7 - 1:29.0 - 1:29.3 - 1:29.7 - 1:29.7 - 1:29.8 - 1:30.1 - 1:30.9 - 1:30.4 - 1:30.1 - 1:30.4 - 1:30.6 - 1:30.9 - 1:31.0
massa last run:
1:29.0 - 1:29.9 - 1:30.1 - 1:29.8 - 1:30.4 - 1:30.0 - 1:29.9 - 1:30.2 - 1:30.4 - 1:30.4 - 1:30.5 - 1:30.7 - 1:31.0 - 1:31.2 - 1:31.4 - 1:33.7 - 1:31.4 - 1:31.7 - 1:31.8 - 1:32.4
Outlap - 1:32.3 - 1:31.6 - 1:31.6 - 1:31.6 - 1:31.9 - 1:31.7 - 1:31.9 - 1:31.6 - 1:31.7 - 1:32.0 - 1:31.8 - 1:32.0 - 1:32.1 - 1:31.8 - 1:31.6 - Inlap
Sainz (medium):
Outlap - 1:26.2 - 1:27.0 - 1:27.5 - 1:27.4 - 1:27.7 - 1:27.8 - 1:28.4 - 1:29.0 - 1:28.4 - 1:28.4 - 1:28.7 - 1:28.5 - 1:28.7 - 1:28.9 - 1:28.8 - 1:28.7 - 1:29.0 - Inlap
Rosberg (medium):
Outlap - 1:30.9 - 1:26.6 - 1:27.2 - 1:27.4 - 1:30.4 - 1:27.9 - 1:27.6 - 1:28.0 - 1:27.9 - 1:27.9 - 1:28.1 - 1:27.8 - 1:27.8 - 1:27.9 - 1:27.9 - Inlap
hamilton (mediums)
Outlap - 1:26.8 - 1:27.4 - 1:27.2 - 1:28.3 - 1:28.0 - 1:28.1 - 1:28.4 - 1:28.1 - 1:27.8 - 1:27.8 - 1:30.0 - 1:28.8 - 1:28.9 - 1:29.3 - 1:30.5
Magnussen (soft):
Outlap - 1:26.0 - 1:26.6 - 1:28.2 - 1:28.3 - 1:28.5 - 1:29.3 - 1:29.3 - 1:30.0 - Inlap
Massa (soft):
Outlap - 1:29.7 - 1:29.7 - 1:30.4 - 1:31.3 - 1:32.3 - 1:32.3 - 1:32.6 - 1:33.2 - 1:33.4 - 1:33.4 - 1:33.9 - 1:34.3 - 1:34.6 - Inlap
sainz last run on (medium)
1:27.1 - 1:28.0 - 1:28.2 - 1:28.5 - 1:29.0 - 1:29.1 - 1:28.7 - 1:29.0 - 1:29.3 - 1:29.7 - 1:29.7 - 1:29.8 - 1:30.1 - 1:30.9 - 1:30.4 - 1:30.1 - 1:30.4 - 1:30.6 - 1:30.9 - 1:31.0
massa last run:
1:29.0 - 1:29.9 - 1:30.1 - 1:29.8 - 1:30.4 - 1:30.0 - 1:29.9 - 1:30.2 - 1:30.4 - 1:30.4 - 1:30.5 - 1:30.7 - 1:31.0 - 1:31.2 - 1:31.4 - 1:33.7 - 1:31.4 - 1:31.7 - 1:31.8 - 1:32.4
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Another little snippet from the Beeb coverage.
The slowest car at the end of the straights was the McLaren. But the fastest car in the final section on day 2 was the Ferrari on ultra-soft, second was the Red Bull on super-soft and in third was the McLaren on the soft. It will be interesting to see what happens when they run the new engine.
The slowest car at the end of the straights was the McLaren. But the fastest car in the final section on day 2 was the Ferrari on ultra-soft, second was the Red Bull on super-soft and in third was the McLaren on the soft. It will be interesting to see what happens when they run the new engine.
Kewee
Race Winner
Precisely Bill Boddy, we can be sure there's a lot more to come from the new McLaren. We also haven't seen anything like the best from Mercedes either, much to all the other teams fears. It will be interesting to measure the different gaps when everything shakes down.
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Apparently Mercedes only asked for Medium tyres for this test and Medium/Soft tyres for next week. So we won't be seeing them on the super/ultra-soft during testing.
I think it was interesting to see in the timings you posted yesterday how the tyres fell away over the course of those 10 to 15 lap runs. Most drivers set their quickest laps on their first lap after the out lap and then the lap times slowly fell away as the run progressed. You would have expected it to remain pretty stable because the tyre deg over a short run would be balanced by fuel use.
Incubus
Champion Elect
Yesterday's speed trap data, as disclosed by Autosport. Makes for (relatively) interesting reading:
1 Nasr, 338.5km/h
2 Hamilton, 337.5km/h
3 Massa, 334.3km/h
4 Hulkenberg, 333.3km/h
5 Haryanto, 333.3km/h
6 Magnussen, 332.3km/h
7 Grosjean, 331.2km/h
8 Raikkonen, 331.2km/h
9 Rosberg, 328.2km/h
10 Sainz, 327.2km/h
11 Kvyat, 322.3km/h
12 Button, 320.4km/h
1 Nasr, 338.5km/h
2 Hamilton, 337.5km/h
3 Massa, 334.3km/h
4 Hulkenberg, 333.3km/h
5 Haryanto, 333.3km/h
6 Magnussen, 332.3km/h
7 Grosjean, 331.2km/h
8 Raikkonen, 331.2km/h
9 Rosberg, 328.2km/h
10 Sainz, 327.2km/h
11 Kvyat, 322.3km/h
12 Button, 320.4km/h
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