2014 / 2015 Silly Season. Drivers Market.

[cider_and_toast]

Bob Fernley, deputy team principal of Force India has said on the BBC sports pages that F1 was not sustainable and would have a "different format" in 2015. He said that F1 is at a crossroads and there is clearly an agenda.

Another indication that a radical change is on its way. That can only be three cars can't it?

 

[Kewee]

I've always believed in three car teams, for me it couldn't come sooner. I also believe they should forget about budget caps with the condition that the sport continues to promoted new technologies that are applicable to road cars. At present the sport always has to cater to the lowest common denominator to make it affordable to the lesser teams. Surely that is totally incompatible with F1, considering it's meant to be the absolute pinnacle of motorsport. The sooner we see three car teams the better as far as I'm concerned, providing the public can relate to the technologies being developed.

 

[Greenlantern101]

When did we last have 3 car teams? I don't remember it.

 

[Incubus]

Well McLaren entered a third car for Villeneuve at the 1977 British GP, although Gilles's was an earlier model. Don't know what the rules were at the time but third cars must obviously have been optional.
Ferrari also entered a third car at the 1976 Italian GP after signing Reuteman because they'd pretty much written off Lauda as damaged goods after his Nurburgring crash. They hadn't expected him to be back so quickly.

 

[Kewee]

I don't know when the number of cars were regulated Greenlantern101 but in the first half of the '50's it was not unusual for there to be four Mercedes, four Maserati's, four Ferrari's and couple of Gordini's. There were others that filled up the grid, H.W.M., Connaught, Cooper-Bristol. They were often very full grids in those days but they were much simpler times. The sport and the teams operated on far less money, in fact it wasn't a business back them and was in many ways all the better for it. The most important issue was staying alive.

 

[Incubus]

^^^Yes. They even had a three-bee-gee team.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Just heard Bob Fernley's statement in full on the BBC news. Wow, he pulls no punches in accussing CVC and the 5 best funded teams of having their own agenda to run F1. It's very unusual to hear someone talk with so much Force.

The trouble as we all know is, as soon as a team move up the grid, the money rolls in and vested interest takes over. Just look at Horner pre and post WDC / WCC. You can read about it in Adam Parrs book. Red Bull were on of the teams that did a total about turn on cost controls once they started winning.

 

[Kewee]

As I said in my previous posting, it's hard to view F1 as the pinnacle of single-seat motor racing when it constantly has to cater to the lowest common denominator, i.e. those teams that are struggling to survive. Surely three car teams and a removal of budget caps, or at least far less restrictive budget restrictions would allow F1 to claim its rightful place as the pinnacle of the sport we all love.

 

[cider_and_toast]

I disagree with that 100%

 

[Jen]

Bob Fernley again:

"Two teams have been forced out. How many need to be forced out before they achieve the goal they are looking for?"

'Forced out' is an extension of the truth. They have gone into administration, which suggests they fucked up financially.

Did neither realise the cost of running a full team in F1 for a few years when they joined the circus?

 

[cider_and_toast]

I believe he's talking about the difference in money from FOM. They said on the radio this week that the ratio of prize money from the top to the bottom of the Premiership is 1.5. In F1 it is nowhere near that. That's how teams are forced out. Major car makers are funded by their groups, they don't need to make a profit in F1 because they can sustain any level of spending their board will allow.

An interesting point will be the middle order teams could run more pay drivers to cover the costs of a third car and bring in more many. This could lead to even less space on the grid for drivers of real merit.

 

[FB]

If you get the chance watch the Team Principals press conference, a huge volte face from Eric Bouiller now he has McLaren and Honda money behind him.

 

[jez101]

Forced out or tricked in, what's the difference? Caterham, Marussia and HRT entered teams in F1 on the basis of a budget cap and an affordable formula that became anything but.

I'm glad that Force India, Sauber and Lotus have spoken up but I fear that they have no option but to take their toys away and let the big teams play by themselves. Unfortunately this is what those teams want.

I think we could even end up with 4 car teams at this rate.

4 x Ferrari (2 will be called Haas)
4 x McLaren
4 x Mercedes
2 x Red Bull + 2 x Toro Rosso
2 x Williams

Where does this go when Williams goes bust when they are next to get out-spent?

This debacle is a slippery slope. The Strategy Group will not stop this happening (this is their agenda). Only the FIA can prevent this and who's going to bet on that?

Bring back Max Mosley. I can't think of a better idea to save the situation

 

[cider_and_toast]

The FIA can do nothing. It's all in the hands of FOM. That is Moseleys true legacy. The day he gave F1 to Bernie lock, stock and barrel that was it.

As for next season's driver market. If Vettel is at Ferrari who will be in the third car? Alonso you would presume would want Merc but would they want him? Two bears in one cage is bad enough, but three? Who would join RBR? Would Vergne finally get a chance?

 

[siffert_fan]

Being dependent upon just a few high-dollar manufacturer teams imposes some very real risks. What happens when the world economy has a slump and car sales fall? Does the board at Mercedes decide that the money being spent on F1 would be more wisely used on research and development for their road cars, thereby eliminating one of the few-in-number teams in Bernie's perfect world?

It is also worth remembering that drivers such as Lauda and Hunt (the shunt) got their start in F1 on private teams, as they didn't have a reputation that deserved consideration by a factory team of the times. That couldn't happen now, with the big teams generally having "junior driver" programs. Nobody outside those programs has much chance of ever being considered.

 

[Il_leone]

it has always been about money in F1 for the teams and obviously each team wants a bigger cut of what Bernie can give them

now Mercedes are not backing down on their spending to be dominant

the increased costs in the turbos this year has really screwed the small teams

 

[Il_leone]

Mephistopheles Okay point taken had to recheck because at one stage apparently it was suggested the contract was $100m because Frank believed it was watertight ( I should not believe what the News of World reported at the time) . $30m still was a lot of money for Jenson to cough up out of his own pocket

Whilst it was controversial i think that was trumped by Alonso walking out at Mclaren because Ron said it was watertight and in the end Alonso left without paying a penny

 

[siffert_fan]

Right now, if Red Bull decides that their advertising dollars would be better spent elsewhere, there would be 4 fewer cars on the grid. Is it wise to exacerbate that problem by mandating more cars per team?

Here is some additional food for thought:

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-an-unprofitable-venture

 

[teabagyokel]

Although I don't want anything like this to happen, I would love this to happen under Ecclestone's watch, rather than after he dies as is his intention.

 

[Bill Boddy]

So we are quite possibly going to have a maximum of 6 teams on the grid with 4 engine suppliers. 3 of those 4 suppliers are not going to be selling many engines so not only do they have to provide more cars but they either have to charge more for their engines or generate more money from elsewhere. Unless, of course, the number of engine suppliers goes down.

The whole thing is a shambles, BCE is not the only one who is guilty, the big teams themselves need to agree to limit costs or face the consequences. The only trouble with that is that they have their heads in the sand which is suffocating them.