Grand Prix 2011 German Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It's turning out to be a strange old season

Mixed conditions and poor pit stops paved the way to an enthralling race, while it had one of the lowest overtaking figures of the year, it certainly showed that overtaking isn't the be all and end all of grand prix racing, however the two Mclaren drivers showed that overtaking can be exciting.

Of the runners and riders, Ferrari have made the biggest gain and maybe, just maybe, Red Bull have lost their monopoly over the top step of the podium and we might finally have a championship, however I'm sure I have said this after China and Canada.......

The curious case of Mclaren continued apace this weekend as they had no pace, found pace and then lost it again. In the changeable conditions at the start of the race, Hamilton and Button charged through the field until the dry conditions when the natural order reasertied themselves, however, it is hard to see how they really showed in fully dry conditions as Button lost a wheel nut early on and Hamilton had to fuel save for the latter part of the race.

Going into the German Grand Prix, Red Bull will understandably be favourites as Sebastian Vettel looks to extend his lead at the top of the championship as he continues in his quest for back to back champions (and the youngest to do so before I'm mistaken) but he'll have to fight off a resurgant Mark Webber who is finally challenging his team mate again after a slow start to the season after he struggled to acclimatise to the Pirelli tyres, he was also stung by the team orders at the end of the last Grand Prix, so you can't bet against him for at least a podium position next weekend.

Renault seem to have disappeared after a strong start to the season, Vitaly Petrov seems to have fallen back into 2010 mode after a strong start to the season. Nick Heidfeld has fared better recently and still features in the lower ends of the points, however a podium seems a long way away, a theory solidified as their side exhausts have had to be abandonded due to the propsed rules, however with the debate going on at the moment, this may not be the case after all.

Mercedes seem to have found pace recently, Rosberg is constintely in the midle of the points while Schumacher seems more like himself again, in more ways than one.......... But at his home grand prix, he will be keen to show that he still has it, along with a large number of German drivers, the most represented country on the grid, so many people will be keen to show that they are the best German on the grid.

Team lotus made it into Q2 again which is a major achievment for them and shows that they are getting closer to the midfield and their major goal of getting points before the end of the year so they can beat Virgin and Hispania.

This year we return to the Nurburgring as part of the deal is that the circuit alternates with Hockenheim, last time we were there was in 2009 where Mark Webber won his first grand prix in the Red Bull. In recent memory Nurburgring will be best remembered for the crazy race in 2007 where a heavy rain shower caused havoc at the start of the race and famously allowed Markus Winkelhock to lead the race in his Spyker, joining the elite of people who led a race in their first (and only race)

For Galahad's excellent circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/nurburgring/
 
I just posted this on McLaren tread, but it's more pertinent here
Seems like McLaren have Increased mechanical grip somehow, this has changed the overall balance, Lewis has been able to get the best out if it, taming understeer whereas Jenson has been defeated by it's increased oversteer

Lewis was flying through the first sector

Isn't that just what Brundle said in the commentary?

If the Red Bulls as usual revert to a less aggressive race profile compared to Q3, Lewis could be favourite here for a win.

I thought that the ban on changing between qualy and race modes was remaining.
 
I was clearly not referring to any upturn in performance today.

Ah right...sorry wasn't clear to me. Are you just talking about from pre-season? Mclaren haven't really improved a huge amount from race 1 till now in my opinion. In fact, i'd say they have been incredibly inconsistent. It looks like they are taking a different car onto the circuit week by week, sometimes session by session.
 
I thought that the ban on changing between qualy and race modes was remaining.

Yes they have. What will cost Red Bull is the lack of DRS for the full circuit, especially if Lewis gets ahead of Mark because their gear ratios aren't set up well for overtaking - or as far as i'm aware.
 
Rain tomorrow may mix things up

Red Bull have been vulnerable or too cautious when question's have been asked about them when Ferrari and Mclaren are too close for comfort

Also it is clear Webber is really fired up and so is Hamilton this weekend whilst Vettel is having to defend himself over alleged favouritism and whether he would have put team interest first if he had been asked to back off... well done Christian Horner for getting Mark angry
 
Isn't that just what Brundle said in the commentary?



I thought that the ban on changing between qualy and race modes was remaining.

Brundle might have mentioned grip, but I don't remember him saying that it had changed the balance and had adversely affected Jenson who does not like oversteer

Changing engine maps were prohibited

Aggressive profile is not a map, it could be steering adjusted engine parameters, i.e. Rbr are still better in quali than race pace

Carry on though!
 
What an amazing lap from Hamilton. Did you guys see the on-board replay? It was literally a perfect lap as he said.

Brilliant performance from Webber. How gutted would RB have been if they didn't choose to go out again in Q3, because if Webber had not of improved, Hamilton would have had pole!

I guess it also shows that Vettel isn't the qualifying king that some people think. Now that Webber has got used to these tyres, he seems faster than Vettel. He has been faster than him all weekend, during short and long runs.
 
Long pit straight for Massa and Alonso to gain some positions tommorrow, anyone know why Jenson abandoned his last hot lap?

I think he was told his first two sectors were down on his previous run and just told to abort which was daft because he probably lost two positions

Having said that the rain may throw things up tomorrow plus it is believed the pirelli's can last up to 30 laps before they fall off the cliff edge

I sincerely do not want pirelli making tyres that last the whole race where teams will simply do 99% of the race on one tyre and then change to the other in the last few laps
 
Just seen the onboard on Webber's pole lap.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14261668.stm

Amazingly, he's flat and with DRS open through the turn 10/11 (the fast chicane Brundle/Coulthard called it). Would love to see what others were able to do.

He was on the rev-limiter very early on the straight, and just about reached 300km/h.

omg lol, he didn't just have DRS open through turn 10/11 but also used up 3/4 of his KERS through there, which then meant he had an amazing exit and run onto the next straight. That was very brave and clever.

I have to say though you can see why Hamilton was so much quicker in sector 1, Webbers sector 1 was messy in comparison, but in sector 2, his car just has more downforce. It was still a very good lap though from him.
 
I guess it also shows that Vettel isn't the qualifying king that some people think. Now that Webber has got used to these tyres, he seems faster than Vettel. He has been faster than him all weekend, during short and long runs.

I get the sense the new engine mapping rules have taken away Vettel's so called extra pace during quali. He has been much faster than Webber until Silverstone and although engine blowing is back, winding it up for qualifying and then backing it off for the race is not. It will be interesting to compare these 2 for the remaining quali's but if this is the norm it will not look good for Vettel.
 
I get the sense the new engine mapping rules have taken away Vettel's so called extra pace during quali. He has been much faster than Webber until Silverstone and although engine blowing is back, winding it up for qualifying and then backing it off for the race is not. It will be interesting to compare these 2 for the remaining quali's but if this is the norm it will not look good for Vettel.

You may be right but I think the main reason is Webber getting used to these tyres and as Martin Brundle said in Quali, the tyres becoming more durable has helped Webber, because he was burning them up too quickly. You can visibly see his long stints have improved and he can keep the tyres in the optimum range better.
 
You may be right but I think the main reason is Webber getting used to these tyres and as Martin Brundle said in Quali, the tyres becoming more durable has helped Webber, because he was burning them up too quickly. You can visibly see his long stints have improved and he can keep the tyres in the optimum range better.

This is what Mark said;

"The last few races have been very, very close and going the right way. We know the tyres are very sensitive; I don't know if it's all about that though.

"I don't feel too different in the car in the last few races, but my relative pace towards him has changed - whether it's him going slower or me going faster I don't know but things have changed a bit in the last few races - but maybe he destroys all of us again this weekend!


Has Seb lost a bit of Q3 magic?
 
I think Webber is benefiting from the extra durability of the Pirelli tyres, Brundle picked up on that before.
 
And that is why practise means nothing at the end of the day when the dust settles. Ferrari just to have shotgun lap setup or pace to be able to sit on the front row.
 
I thought that the ban on changing between qualy and race modes was remaining.[/quote]

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Pprobably won't count for much as it is looking increagly it will be declared a wet race, with the subsequent free choice of tyres itll imply.
 
Will Vettel try and squeeze Alonso to the wall if the Ferrari gets a run on the inside...I believe Vettel is very vulnerable as this circuit because there arent too many high speed corners where the Red Bull's superiority can count plus the gap is closer than before in quali when Red Bull's DRS clearly gives them extra downforce
 
Vettels on the clean side while Alonso isn't, I think Massa will be the one to watch off the line as he usually gets an electric start.
 
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