Grand Prix 2011 German Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It's turning out to be a strange old season

Mixed conditions and poor pit stops paved the way to an enthralling race, while it had one of the lowest overtaking figures of the year, it certainly showed that overtaking isn't the be all and end all of grand prix racing, however the two Mclaren drivers showed that overtaking can be exciting.

Of the runners and riders, Ferrari have made the biggest gain and maybe, just maybe, Red Bull have lost their monopoly over the top step of the podium and we might finally have a championship, however I'm sure I have said this after China and Canada.......

The curious case of Mclaren continued apace this weekend as they had no pace, found pace and then lost it again. In the changeable conditions at the start of the race, Hamilton and Button charged through the field until the dry conditions when the natural order reasertied themselves, however, it is hard to see how they really showed in fully dry conditions as Button lost a wheel nut early on and Hamilton had to fuel save for the latter part of the race.

Going into the German Grand Prix, Red Bull will understandably be favourites as Sebastian Vettel looks to extend his lead at the top of the championship as he continues in his quest for back to back champions (and the youngest to do so before I'm mistaken) but he'll have to fight off a resurgant Mark Webber who is finally challenging his team mate again after a slow start to the season after he struggled to acclimatise to the Pirelli tyres, he was also stung by the team orders at the end of the last Grand Prix, so you can't bet against him for at least a podium position next weekend.

Renault seem to have disappeared after a strong start to the season, Vitaly Petrov seems to have fallen back into 2010 mode after a strong start to the season. Nick Heidfeld has fared better recently and still features in the lower ends of the points, however a podium seems a long way away, a theory solidified as their side exhausts have had to be abandonded due to the propsed rules, however with the debate going on at the moment, this may not be the case after all.

Mercedes seem to have found pace recently, Rosberg is constintely in the midle of the points while Schumacher seems more like himself again, in more ways than one.......... But at his home grand prix, he will be keen to show that he still has it, along with a large number of German drivers, the most represented country on the grid, so many people will be keen to show that they are the best German on the grid.

Team lotus made it into Q2 again which is a major achievment for them and shows that they are getting closer to the midfield and their major goal of getting points before the end of the year so they can beat Virgin and Hispania.

This year we return to the Nurburgring as part of the deal is that the circuit alternates with Hockenheim, last time we were there was in 2009 where Mark Webber won his first grand prix in the Red Bull. In recent memory Nurburgring will be best remembered for the crazy race in 2007 where a heavy rain shower caused havoc at the start of the race and famously allowed Markus Winkelhock to lead the race in his Spyker, joining the elite of people who led a race in their first (and only race)

For Galahad's excellent circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/nurburgring/
 
That's whats gonna make tomorrow really fascinating, particularly if he isn't leading after lap 1.
 
Hammy could win, I hope so! And if Nico and Schumi could both be on the podium behind him, it will be a good day for me and germany! Also if it rains will be the icing on the cake!
 
I reckon that tomorrow we will finally have an answer to the Vettel conundrum

Is he really that good without a magic Q3?
lets see if the guy can overtake or agree to hold station when asked to behind Webber..those were the two questions he's had to answer since Silverstone on top of can he win without starting from the front row which he has only done once a charitable start line pass on Webber last year into the first corner in Malaysia. Having said that Webber has only ever won from starting on the front row
 
I reckon that tomorrow we will finally have an answer to the Vettel conundrum...Is he really that good without a magic Q3?

:D So, you're saying that there wasn't the "magic Q3" in Valencia? We're back to Valencia Spec, right?

Anyway, you still might not get your answer tomorrow. (Vettel could be P1 or P2 out of Turn 1...or they could have the dreaded Safety Car start.) ;)
 
my thoughts are:
this track shows how brave webber and hamilton are, particulary hamilton who is in an inferior car
martin whitmarsh should not be sacked because Formula1 is the biggest team sport on the planet. It relies on everyone as Button shows all too well [silverstone, final pit stop] therfore martin whitmarsh has a partial fault in this but no where near the amount he receives currently
hamilton will win because knowing mark and his recent starts i would put my money on him leading past the first corner
jenson is a mystery. To lose 1.2 seconds is just insane
red bull with drs on the straights will not make much of a difference. They are still slow. Top speed with drs from t11 to 13, 298km. slow
rain is forcasted for tomorrow, should play into the hands of mclaren, who as well know are aces in the wet. webber isnt as is vettel [canada]
would it be wishful to expect contact between vettel and webber into the1st corner? after tem orders at silverstone mark will be as aggresive as possible
as the pirellis get harder and harder, aiming for a 2 pit stop race, webber and mclaren will get faster and faster because both car and men like the harder tyres more and they are also harder on their tyres anyway, vettel doesnt like hard tyres preffering softs
buemi will be on the move having being demoted to 24th after fuel irregularities
red bull do nothave the advantage of going flat through the high speed chicane up the hill, as mclaren and ferrari did it flat out

i think too much :)
 
:D So, you're saying that there wasn't the "magic Q3" in Valencia? We're back to Valencia Spec, right?

In Valencia Seb was only 0.18 ahead of Webber, so you could say he didn't have his normal magic there either, in Canada it was about half a sec. Apart from Spain where Webber took pole, Seb was about 0.4 to 0.8 faster all season

Valencia was suddenly close again and Webber beat him in Silverstone and now again in Germany
 
They were running slicks towards the end in the GP2 race but there were a few drops of rain and the clouds looked fairly heavy. Looks likely we'll start behind the SC but long way to go yet.
 
Am I the only one who doesn't want it to rain? I think we could have a classic in the dry without an unknown variable thrown in.
 
If there is any sort of rain there will be a safety car start which would ruin the sight of the 2 Red Bulls, Hamilton and Alonso hurtling into turn 1 from a standing start.
 
If there is any sort of rain there will be a safety car start which would ruin the sight of the 2 Red Bulls, Hamilton and Alonso hurtling into turn 1 from a standing start.

Sorry I am not sure what you mean by "ruin the sight of the 2 Red Bulls". An SC start means everyone retains their position for a couple of laps. If anything I think Redbull would love to start behind the safety car and Webber will be better prepared for any attack from behind. He's not particularly good in the wet and a few reconnaissance laps behind the safety car will help him a lot.

Edit: Agreed, I realise what you meant now.
 
He means the fans would be robbed of watching the 2 Red Bulls, Hamilton and Alonso fighting it out at the first corner.

Meanwhile the FIA has confirmed a 'change in climatic conditions' so the teams can tweak front wings and brake ducts.
 
It ruins the spectacle, for all we know Alonso could throw one down the inside. Button could get a great start, who knows.
 
In Valencia Seb was only 0.18 ahead of Webber, so you could say he didn't have his normal magic there either, in Canada it was about half a sec. Apart from Spain where Webber took pole, Sebs been from about 0.4 to 0.8 faster all season...Valencia was suddenly close again and Webber beat him in Silverstone and now again in Germany

The only "magic" is the earlier adaptation by Vettel to new Pirellis in the Fly Aways and, then - for Webber - the "magic" is the manufacturer making the tyres progressively more durable through the course of the season. Webber told Brundle exactly this earlier in the weekend. The tyre situation was playing into Vettel's hand in the first quarter...and it's switched towards Webber - progressively - in the second quarter.
 
If it is wet, I've got a bad feeling Hamilton will collide with Webber, who tends to be a bit clumsy/cack-handed when being overtaken.
 
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