Pre-Season Winter testing : 2014 Season

[teabagyokel]

Hulkenburg vs Gutierrez 2013

Note that for the purposes of working out the average point difference, Hulkenburg is classified for the Indian Grand Prix. Removing this result would send the average difference above 3.

 

[Il_leone]

Mephistopheles I thought the engine freeze is no longer in place

Still though Mercedes will be the one that drives the input into what parts are

Kobayashi feels the Renault engines are down on power delivery

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-kobayashi-renault-can-39-t-compete-180404917--f1.html

 

[RasputinLives]

I feel a bit sorry for Gutierrez because by his own admission he was not ready for F1 last year and said that on numerous occasions but Sauber put him in anyway because they needed a Mexican driver to keep their Mexican sponsors.

Because he got drafted in for sponsor reasons he's been labeled a pay driver when in actual fact he had a total of zero personnel sponsors for the 2013 season.

To top it all he ended up with a car that wasn't as good as the previous seasons, a team whose budget wasn't big enough to fix it quickly and he was up against a team mate who'd give world champs a rough ride that'll own a rookie thrown in too soon. By the time he even got anywhere near up to speed with the car his team mate had blitzed him and the F1 world had judged him.

I hope he can get some respect back for himself this year.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Il_leone the engines I believe will be sealed before the start of the season but I don't know if this is just for whilst the season is on and development can be carried out off season for next year, maybe someone else can clarify the situation for us...

 

[Il_leone]

Mephistopheles I got the impression this was the season where the engine builders could really turn loose with developments after years of freezing which meant the speed of the car was more aerodynamic influenced

-----------------------------

Having said that Mercedes have come out saying they are treating Mclaren differently than previously

 

[sushifiesta]

I'm reasonably certain that engine development will continue for a few years before it is frozen Mephistopheles . However, the teams are only allowed 5 engines to use during the season and these will be sealed before the season starts. Any changes made to those five engines can only be for reliability reasons and with the approval of the FIA.

This is my understanding anyway. It seems a bit odd to have a limit on the number of engines used and homologation at the same time as engine development is going on in the background though, but this is F1 so nothing is logical.

 

[Mephistopheles]

That's how I understand it as well, which to me means Merc will develop their engine but will not be allowed to use those developments until next year, which was the point I was trying to make to Il_leone but do Merc have to pass any developments made on to its customer teams for next year or will they only sell them out of date engines, as has been the case in the past in any case it will not affect McLaren as they are going with Honda and Honda have a whole years extra development without having to worry about supplying customer teams at the same time...

 

[sushifiesta]

I don't know the regulations well enough, but I'm not aware of any rule that forces all the engines to be the same, even within a team. With the engine freeze not in place there might even be potential for the manufacturers to provide different spec power units for different circuit characteristics for example.

I doubt that will ever happen but as far as I know it's not illegal (as long as they're all sealed before the start of the season) but the point is that I'm not sure there's anything stopping the manufacturers selling a "2nd hand" product apart from the contracts they sign with the teams they supply. I would think that engine homologation makes it less likely though as the race engines will never really be the latest iteration.

 

[-WBF1-]

From the F1 fanatic website re engine freezes.

Planned FIA engine development freeze, 2015-2020
As per the current 2014 Technical Regulations:

2015
New items included in development freeze
Upper/lower crankcase: Cylinder bore spacing, deck height, bank stagger.
Crankshaft: Crank throw, main bearing journal diameter, rod bearing journal diameter.
Air valve system: Including compressor, air pressure regulation devices.

2016
Upper/lower crankcase: All dimensions including cylinder bore position relative to legality volume, water core.

Valve drive – camshafts: From camshaft lobe to gear train. Geometry except lift profile. Includes damping systems linked to camshaft. Exhaust and Inlet.
Valve drive: Position and geometry. Gear train down to crankshaft gear included, and dampers.
Covers: Covers closing the areas in contact with engine oil cam covers, cam-timing covers.
Ancilliaries drive: From ancillary to power source. Includes position of the ancillaries as far as drive is concerned.

2018
Valves axis position: Includes angle but excludes axial displacement.
Valves drive: From valve to camshaft lobe. Position and geometry. Exhaust and inlet. Includes valve return function inside the head.
Crankshaft: Except crank throw, main bearing journal diameter, rod bearing journal diameter. Includes crankshaft bearings.
Oil pressure pumps: Including filter but excluding internal if no impact on body.
Oil scavenge systems: Any scavenging system.

2019
Cylinder head: Except modifications linked to subsequent modifications.
Combustion: All parts of parts defining combustion including ports, piston crown, combustion chamber, valves geometry, timing, lift, injector nozzle, coils, spark plug but excluding valves position.
Con rods: Including small and big end bearings.
Pistons: Including bearings and pin. Excluding crown.
Oil recuperation: Oil/air separator, oil tank, catch tank.
Engine water pumps: Include power unit mounted water pipes.
Injection systems: Power unit-mounted fuel system components e.g. high pressure fuel hose, fuel rail, fuel injectors, accumulators but excluding injector nozzle.
Inlet system: Plenum and associated actuators. Excluding pressure charging, trumpets and throttle associated parts and actuators. Trumpets and associated parts and actuators. Throttles and associated parts and actuators.
Pressure charging: From compressor inlet to compressor outlet. From turbine inlet to turbine outlet. External actuators linked to pressure charging.
Ignition system: Ignition coils, driver box.
Lubrication: All parts in which circulates oil under pressure (oil pump gears, channels, piping, jets) and not mentioned elsewhere in the table.
Friction coatings
Sliding or rotating seals
Complete Motor Generator Units for Heat and Kinetic energy – all internals including bearings, casing, etc…, their position, transmission and power electronics.
Energy Store: Cells.
Energy Recovery System – Cooling/lubrication: Including energy store jackets, pipes, pumps, actuators.

Edit: I have just seen the date on the article which was mid September 2013 so might have changed since then

 

[Mephistopheles]

Well that clears that up then..........................................

 

[Bill Boddy]

If RBR are disadvantaged by having an inferior engine we could see Mr Horner pressing for an awful lot of "reliability" upgrades. I can't see the FIA not allowing them to happen and if they also add power that is just lucky.

 

[Lewywo4]

Having said that Mercedes have come out saying they are treating Mclaren differently than previously

ll_leone..... Mercedes says, as the season progresses, certain technical information will not be passed on to Mclaren

.http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112466

 

[Mephistopheles]

So when an engine is finished i.e McLaren won't be running that one again for the year do they have to give it back to Merc or can they slip it out the back door and deliver it to Honda to strip down and examine? Or even claim it got lost in the post..

I'm a devious bastard me....

 

[Bill Boddy]

.... Or even claim it got lost in the post.....

 

[Lewywo4]

Meph in your scenario....you can be sure that " The Rat ", will loudly let the world know about the lack of integrity, of both Mclaren and Ron Dennis.....

 

[Fenderman]

If one fancies watching paint dry this is GPUdate's idea of video of the day: http://t.co/sFlMwnb4yO

Someone please explain to me what the attraction is. Personally I want to watch F1 cars go very, very fast, preferably getting out of shape once in a while.

 

[sushifiesta]

Hamilton has closed to within 2s of last year's pole time already this morning. His time would have placed him 16th on the 2013 grid, and Magnussen's fastest time from yesterday would have put him 19th last year. Up to now, no other driver has set a time better than last place for the 2013 grand prix.

I think there's a half decent chance that the 2014 Bahrain pole time will be faster than 2013, which is pretty incredible when you think about it.

 

[snowy]

Autosport Live report:

Hamilton, Massa and Ericsson are all pounding round at the moment, but there are no particularly eye-catching laptimes out there.

They just don't get it! These are the very times that are the most important! The consistency of times on long runs and the tyres they are using is the very thing that can give us a clue as to how our team is faring. Denying us fans clues to the teams relative performance in testing is a heinous and unnecessary crime. The teams have all the data and know so much about how the teams are performing relative to one another. Why freeze us out?!!

 

[FB]

I did enjoy a small moment on Sky's coverage yesterday when Kevin Magnusson came into the pits and then reversed back. He hadn't missed the McLaren garage, he had never had to put the car into reverse before so they thought they should test that too.

 

[sushifiesta]

Button has now set a time that overlaps with the 2014 grid, and I just realised that Hulkenberg's time from yesterday also just about gets himself 22nd on the 2013 grid as well. So we have four Mercedes powered drivers who have set times fast enough to beat drivers at the tail end of the 2013 grid.

The fastest Ferrari powered time is just a couple of hundredths behind the 2013 grid, so they're about there as well, whereas for Renault the difference is almost three seconds.

I'll have another look at the end of tomorrow to see how things develop.