War of Words Continues...

[Fenderman]

It also pays to see reasonably longer part of the build up to the overtake and see it all in real real time. Having looked at a couple more replays on Youtube I thinj t really was just a slight misjudgement on the part of both drivers. Why it was thought worthy of a penalty for anyone is beyond me. That's what worries me about this incident ... are we in for another season of petty nitpicking by the stewards whilst they miss the important stuff?

Edit: Please don't answer that last question. There's a thread about inconsistent stewarding somewhere else.

 

[the_roadie]

Maybe someone could start a thread on the issue of 'backmarker passing' as it is an interesting issue, and one which this incident seems to have exposed in terms of who is right and wrong - i.e. should the backmarker, if racing another car directly, move out of the way at all costs and therefore compromise his race, or is the lapping driver right in expecting the lapped car to move out of the way when the blue flags are waved.

I know some on this forum don't even like the blue flag rule and would prefer to see a forced pass, like it used to be.

Not going to start a "backmarker passing" thread about it (despite my personal hatred of the use of blue flags to penalise people who are already down) but do feel that if a racer is good enough to catch a back marker then he should also be good enough to pass that backmarker - a point that jenov2003 made in the following post.

Isn't this just vettel blamestorming what was, and should have been classed as, a racing incident?
I saw a post elsewhere (evilwhippet I think) comparing Vettel talking about "monkeys at the back" and Karthikeyan replying with "cry-baby" that two wrongs don't make a right.
Though despite my sore misgivings* about Karthikeyan even being in F1 to begin with, he did OK to stand up for himself in reply to Vettel in the publicity stakes.


* forget the jokes about putting talcum powder on them etc., I've heard them all!

 

[teabagyokel]

Not going to start a "backmarker passing" thread about it (despite my personal hatred of the use of blue flags to penalise people who are already down).

Well, you'll be happy to know that hammydirestarules did: http://cliptheapex.com/threads/backmarkers.4806/

 

[Fenderman]

Backmarker thread here:

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/backmarkers.4806/

As usual TBY, you've beaten me to it!

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I think we should have a thread about backmarkers.

 

[teabagyokel]

I think we should have a thread about backmarkers.

You could try this one, Ninja?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Is that one of those hyperlink thingies?

 

[the_roadie]

Well, you'll be happy to know that hammydirestarules did: http://cliptheapex.com/threads/backmarkers.4806/

yes, I found and was in the middle of reading that thread when I got alerts at the top of the screen so I read those only to find they were from you telling me to look at that one that I had already been looking at !!

Gotta love this technology stuff, innit!

 

[Jen]

yes, I found and was in the middle of reading that thread when I got alerts at the top of the screen so I read those only to find they were from you telling me to look at that one that I had already been looking at !!

Gotta love this technology stuff, innit!

Also gotta keep up - don't you just hate the smart arses!!

 

[the_roadie]

Also gotta keep up - don't you just hate the smart arses!!

far be it from me to call anyone here a smartarse, perish the thought! <insert angelic non-judgmental smiley>

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Right, this is not exactly scientific, just my take on things (and excuse the poor quality image, it's the best I could do with an online converter). Here's an approximation of turns 7 & 8. The lines taken by the two drivers are also my estimate from watching the various clips.

Vettel's line is very similar to the normal racing line. Karthikeyan had to slow firstly for Hamilton to pass, on the entry into turn 7, and then the Marussia followed Hamilton through between 7 & 8, making karthikeyan stay left. He then came over towards the middle of the track at turn 8, but still some way left of the racing line, before going wide again to let Vettel through. You can see the spray come up from the astroturf as he goes over the left hand kerb. As far as I can see, it was fairly predictable that he would start to move right a little on the exit of turn 8, as it would be the natural extension of the line he had taken through the two bends; anyway, he couldn't have gone any further left as he was already on the kerb, which he would no doubt have been wanting to get off as soon as he could. He was also in an unsettled car, with wet tyres. Perhaps Vettel just didn't allow quite as much room as he might have; a racing incident and no more, in my view.

As to whether Karthikeyan 'chose' to let the leading cars through at an awkward point and could or should have waited till the following straight, I wonder if he really had any choice at all. He (and others) has been criticised in the past for waiting too long, and holding people up, and he can now see Hamilton and Vettel bearing down on him. What should he do? These days, backmarkers have been conditioned to jump out of the way to allow the leaders through as soon as possible, so as not to be penalised for ignoring blue flags.

I'm no apologist for Karthikeyan, in fact I have questioned whether he deserved his place in F1 following some of his mobile chicanery at Melbourne and in the past, but in this instance I think he has been rather unfairly criticised.

 

[teabagyokel]

yes, I found and was in the middle of reading that thread when I got alerts at the top of the screen so I read those only to find they were from you telling me to look at that one that I had already been looking at !!

Gotta love this technology stuff, innit!

Yeah, sorry 'bout that!

 

[Fenderman]

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/276632/petrov-blames-vettel-for-karthikeyan-incident/

 

[ExtremeNinja]

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/276632/petrov-blames-vettel-for-karthikeyan-incident/

Another driver who has stood up to abuse from a recent(ish) formula 1 champion.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I must say I am surprised at just how bitter Sebastian Vettel is at not winning the WDC.

He didn't congratulate Mark Webber on his win yesterday and he very grudgingly congratulated Jenson Button.

This is in marked contrast to Lewis Hamilton in 2007 when he lost by just 1 point and also Felipe Massa last year who despite being inconsolable had the good grace to be one of the first to offer his congratulations.

He has recently been quoted as saying the following about where he finishes in the championship:
"We didn't win and I don't care if I'm second or third. Second is the first loser"

He's not very magnanimous in defeat, is he?

Pulled this from another thread. Note the date which is 19 Oct 2009. Some early observations from Brogan

 

[jez101]

I'm going to leave this Vettel bashing to one side and put it in the same bucket as the Lewis bashing we see so regularly.

I did watch the Sky F1 show and they had Jonny Herbert on there. He explained very well why it was Narain's fault and Ted also highlighted at the point where he changed direction leading to the contact, that Narian was actually looking in his mirrors and not where he or Vettel were going.

Herbert's point was that the HRT should have stayed along the line of the white line on the left of the track (from his perspective) and seeing the incident head on, its very hard for me to blame Vettel.

 

[Brogan]

To me it almost perfectly mirrors the Hamilton-Kobayashi incident of last year.

Both drivers have made the pass and they both move onto the line they intend to take for the next corner.
Unfortunately there was already a car occupying that space.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

To me it almost perfectly mirrors the Hamilton-Kobayashi incident of last year.

Both drivers have made the pass and they both move onto the line they intend to take for the next corner.
Unfortunately there was already a car occupying that space.

There is the exception that Kobayashi was not a lapped driver.

 

[Fenderman]

... and this is not the first time Herbert and his chums in the stewards room have made a decision. We are reassured, then, that the nitpicking bullcrap will continue. Get your tin-foil hats ready for the next one, folk's.

 

[ExtremeNinja]