Tilke's circuit discussion
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LifeW12
Podium Finisher
Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi GP Practice, Qualifying and Race Discussion
They can make Turn 8 faster, by changing the radius of the corner
ATL11 said:What could they change though? Take out turns 5 & 6 and just let the car drag race it down to the hairpin?LifeW12 said:The circuit needs to be changed because its clear that Tilke got it wrong
They can make Turn 8 faster, by changing the radius of the corner
sobriety
Race Winner
Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi GP Practice, Qualifying and Race Discussion
I would scrap 5&6 and leave the straight, and also 8&9 and 11,12,14&14,making them curves rather than chicanes. It might not aid overtaking but it would make the circuit a whole lot faster, and hopefully slightly more daunting for the drivers.
And while i'm dreaming i'd put the curve that replaces 8&9 on a small artificial crest just to give it some sort of elevation change...
I would scrap 5&6 and leave the straight, and also 8&9 and 11,12,14&14,making them curves rather than chicanes. It might not aid overtaking but it would make the circuit a whole lot faster, and hopefully slightly more daunting for the drivers.
And while i'm dreaming i'd put the curve that replaces 8&9 on a small artificial crest just to give it some sort of elevation change...
Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi GP Practice, Qualifying and Race Discussion
Firstly I'd switch turns 5 and 6, as they look a right bugger to negotiate according to sobriety's plan.
Whenever a tight turn precedes a straight, it seems that the lead car can get on the throttle earlier and break the tow of the following car. So what I'd actually do is remove turns 5, 6 and 7 and insert a Parabolica-style fast sweeping curve, to give the following car a chance to latch onto the one in front to get into its slipstream down the back straight.
Firstly I'd switch turns 5 and 6, as they look a right bugger to negotiate according to sobriety's plan.
Whenever a tight turn precedes a straight, it seems that the lead car can get on the throttle earlier and break the tow of the following car. So what I'd actually do is remove turns 5, 6 and 7 and insert a Parabolica-style fast sweeping curve, to give the following car a chance to latch onto the one in front to get into its slipstream down the back straight.
LifeW12
Podium Finisher
Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi GP Practice, Qualifying and Race Discussion
I've made a few changes that may help
1. Turn 5 and 6 becomes a sort of medium speed corner that opens up onto the straight. Some length is lost but the entry to the straight is a lot faster.
2. The current Turn 8 will be opened up by moving the apex to the right and should hopefully make it easy flat, so the run down the next straight is longer and faster.
3. The current Turn 14 will be made a left sweep, easy flat out. Won't make a difference to overtaking, but the current corner is classic Tilke.
4. The two right angle corners past the hotel made slightly faster, just to speed up the circuit a little bit
I've made a few changes that may help
1. Turn 5 and 6 becomes a sort of medium speed corner that opens up onto the straight. Some length is lost but the entry to the straight is a lot faster.
2. The current Turn 8 will be opened up by moving the apex to the right and should hopefully make it easy flat, so the run down the next straight is longer and faster.
3. The current Turn 14 will be made a left sweep, easy flat out. Won't make a difference to overtaking, but the current corner is classic Tilke.
4. The two right angle corners past the hotel made slightly faster, just to speed up the circuit a little bit
snowy
Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi GP Practice, Qualifying and Race Discussion
The circuits that currently appear to promote overtaking have in common a series of challenging medium and slow turns preceding a short straight, followed by a very challenging turn (they're often long and fast but are preferably short) that preludes a long straight with a very slow turn (often a hairpin) at the end of it.
Examples of which are China turns 9 through 14, Hockenheim turns 2 through 6, Canada 6 through 10, Turkey turns 8 through 12 and Brazil 8 through 1.
The medium and slow turns promote small errors and mistakes, the fast turn challenges the grip of the car and the grit of the driver and the hairpin tests the brakes.
Medium speed turns and chicanes at the end of long straights are fundamentally useless and should never be allowed. There should always be an option somewhere on a circuit for the block pass.
The circuits that currently appear to promote overtaking have in common a series of challenging medium and slow turns preceding a short straight, followed by a very challenging turn (they're often long and fast but are preferably short) that preludes a long straight with a very slow turn (often a hairpin) at the end of it.
Examples of which are China turns 9 through 14, Hockenheim turns 2 through 6, Canada 6 through 10, Turkey turns 8 through 12 and Brazil 8 through 1.
The medium and slow turns promote small errors and mistakes, the fast turn challenges the grip of the car and the grit of the driver and the hairpin tests the brakes.
Medium speed turns and chicanes at the end of long straights are fundamentally useless and should never be allowed. There should always be an option somewhere on a circuit for the block pass.
LifeW12
Podium Finisher
Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi GP Practice, Qualifying and Race Discussion
What do people think of the new India circuit, the teams changed the design before they started building it?
I think Tilke overlooks banked corners too much, I would like to see some appear so different lines can be taken through them. They could work provided they are in the right place. Why doesn't he put in a Tarzan-type corner at say Turn 1 in Austin?
Yas Marina has a problem because they slapped that damn hotel in there so they can't really do a lot of work
so its always going to be a hard overtake track
What do people think of the new India circuit, the teams changed the design before they started building it?
I think Tilke overlooks banked corners too much, I would like to see some appear so different lines can be taken through them. They could work provided they are in the right place. Why doesn't he put in a Tarzan-type corner at say Turn 1 in Austin?
Yas Marina has a problem because they slapped that damn hotel in there so they can't really do a lot of work
so its always going to be a hard overtake track
snowy
Champion Elect
The FIA's track specifications are very strict and there's a very long list of things that Tilke is not allowed to do. I think the 2005 tyre fiasco at Indianapolis has put an end to banking being incorporated into FIA sanctioned circuits... I believe there's now even prejudiced against camber into turns, which may explain why Tilke used a lot of off-cambered turns in Abu Dhabi and Korea.
Andrea_Moda_Rules
Podium Finisher
Snowy, I believe Banked corner have always been banned,in the last 20 years anyhow, But i think an execption was made for indy because the FIA/Bernie wanted to use the iconic circuit because of the status of the famous Indy 500 and wanted to use part of the oval too, easier to incorperate the track design and possibly using part of the oval would of provided a great marketing. So indy banking was allowed.
I know has well in the past Silverstone wanted to add some banking to one of the corners, cliub?, thinking it might help over taking, but the FIA wouldn't allow it.
I know has well in the past Silverstone wanted to add some banking to one of the corners, cliub?, thinking it might help over taking, but the FIA wouldn't allow it.
There you go.
Longitudinal profi le
Any change in gradient should be effected using a minimum
vertical radius calculated by the formula :
R = V²
K
Where R is the radius in metres, V is the speed in kph and K is a
constant equal to 20 in the case of a concave profi le or to 15 in
the case of a convex profi le. The value of R should be adequately
increased along approach, release, braking and curved sections.
Wherever possible, changes in gradient should be avoided
altogether in these sections.
The gradient of the start/fi nish straight should not exceed 2 %.
7.5 Transversal inclination, drainage
Along straights, the transversal incline, for drainage purposes,
between the two edges of the track or between the centre-line
and the edge (camber), should not exceed 3%, or be less than
1,5 %.
In curves, the banking (downwards from the outside to the inside
of the track) should not exceed 10 % (with possible exceptions
in special cases, such as speedways). An adverse incline is not
generally acceptable unless dictated by special circumstances, in
which case the entry speed should not exceed 125 kph.
Any variation in transversal incline, particularly along the
entry and exit sections of a planimetrical curve, should have
adequate altimetrical transitions, based on the trajectory and on
consideration of point 7.4.
Systems for adequate drainage of water from the track, pit lane,
paddock and public areas should be treated as a priority in the
planning stage.
7.6 Track edges, verges and run
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 010%20.pdf
Longitudinal profi le
Any change in gradient should be effected using a minimum
vertical radius calculated by the formula :
R = V²
K
Where R is the radius in metres, V is the speed in kph and K is a
constant equal to 20 in the case of a concave profi le or to 15 in
the case of a convex profi le. The value of R should be adequately
increased along approach, release, braking and curved sections.
Wherever possible, changes in gradient should be avoided
altogether in these sections.
The gradient of the start/fi nish straight should not exceed 2 %.
7.5 Transversal inclination, drainage
Along straights, the transversal incline, for drainage purposes,
between the two edges of the track or between the centre-line
and the edge (camber), should not exceed 3%, or be less than
1,5 %.
In curves, the banking (downwards from the outside to the inside
of the track) should not exceed 10 % (with possible exceptions
in special cases, such as speedways). An adverse incline is not
generally acceptable unless dictated by special circumstances, in
which case the entry speed should not exceed 125 kph.
Any variation in transversal incline, particularly along the
entry and exit sections of a planimetrical curve, should have
adequate altimetrical transitions, based on the trajectory and on
consideration of point 7.4.
Systems for adequate drainage of water from the track, pit lane,
paddock and public areas should be treated as a priority in the
planning stage.
7.6 Track edges, verges and run
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 010%20.pdf
Here are some changes that I think would be useful.
1.I think that the back straight is too long, and the teams end up with rubbish gear ratios so that the engines dont blow up.
2.Also how come the support races get a better pit straight than the f1? Even though it is kinked, it is still long enough to make the first turn worthwhile.
3.The new turn 1 should be just a double, and not a triple chicane.
4.Sector 3 shoud be changed, it adds nothing to track.
1.I think that the back straight is too long, and the teams end up with rubbish gear ratios so that the engines dont blow up.
2.Also how come the support races get a better pit straight than the f1? Even though it is kinked, it is still long enough to make the first turn worthwhile.
3.The new turn 1 should be just a double, and not a triple chicane.
4.Sector 3 shoud be changed, it adds nothing to track.
20 years ago - does this have anything to do with Sennas crash at Peradelta in the late 80s? Seems like too much of a concidence.Andrea_Moda_Rules said:
McLarenSupremo said:
sportsman said:
I think that china is not that steep.
Andrea_Moda_Rules
Podium Finisher
tooncheese said:
Lol thats just a very rough guestimation. Actually if i think long and deep into this, i suspect Banked corners might of been outlawed during the raft of rule changes after Senna's accident.
I ony put 20 years in the first place because some smart arse would of repiled that the US GP was actually the Indy 500
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