Head To Head Sebastian Vettel vs Daniel Ricciardo
- Thread starter Greenlantern101
- Start date
DR is driving extremely well in a car that is woefully underpowered yet posseses all the trademark characteristics of a Newey design in clean air ... SV would have beaten DR to the podium but for an extremely determined Alonso today ... probably the only driver other than Nico (after about 23 laps in) that had the angry pants on at Silverstone ...
And as much as it gave me a good laugh hearing SV throw the toys out of his Renault powered pram lap after lap complaining about FA ... though he gave him a really good Hamilton Bahrain (patent pending) chop at one point ... I can understand why he was so frustrated ... he has only had about 3 races out of 9 this season where it all seems to be working well for him ...
And as much as it gave me a good laugh hearing SV throw the toys out of his Renault powered pram lap after lap complaining about FA ... though he gave him a really good Hamilton Bahrain (patent pending) chop at one point ... I can understand why he was so frustrated ... he has only had about 3 races out of 9 this season where it all seems to be working well for him ...
It would take more than statistics, that's for sure.
You do have to do something to rack those stats up you know 
Keke
Some on here have been so effusive with their praise of the the abilities of Newey that the intimation is that his chassis are SO great that they can compensate for a lack of power. They have also used the fact that Seb has been driving a Newey car to try to downplay his accomplishments ("anyone could win in that car" etc). Of course, this position ignores the fact that Schumacher won all of his titles in non-Newey cars. Indeed, he had to beat Newey cars to win those titles. The naysayers then grope for other excuses to belittle the accomplishments of MS.
Basically it comes down to this: if they don't like a given WDC, they will attempt to downplay that drivers accomplishments using any feeble excuse they can.
Some on here have been so effusive with their praise of the the abilities of Newey that the intimation is that his chassis are SO great that they can compensate for a lack of power. They have also used the fact that Seb has been driving a Newey car to try to downplay his accomplishments ("anyone could win in that car" etc). Of course, this position ignores the fact that Schumacher won all of his titles in non-Newey cars. Indeed, he had to beat Newey cars to win those titles. The naysayers then grope for other excuses to belittle the accomplishments of MS.
Basically it comes down to this: if they don't like a given WDC, they will attempt to downplay that drivers accomplishments using any feeble excuse they can.
Yes. Well done Danny boy.
You do have to do something to rack those stats up you know
Nothing I haven't credited him for. However, stats don't tell stories, in the same way that music sheets don't make you dance.
Thanks for the wise words Yoda. I'm truly going to reach enlightenment now.
You ignore all the 100 odd races that came before and call them stats then and then base your correctness on the stats for the last 9 races (as you aren't giving credit for the actual performances).
I shall let you have the last word as I know you like it but I'd just like to point out that whilst everyone else in the world talked about the great battle between Alonso and Vettel you described it as "Vettel making a hash of passing a slow Alonso" which is the biggest twist of the facts to fit the story I've ever heard. So my point made I won't comment anymore - its very sad that such an obvious racing fan is letting his dislike of a driver get in the way of enjoying one of the top drivers.
I look forward to reading the sematrics of how wrong I am and the obvious reason for it.
You ignore all the 100 odd races that came before and call them stats then and then base your correctness on the stats for the last 9 races (as you aren't giving credit for the actual performances).
I shall let you have the last word as I know you like it but I'd just like to point out that whilst everyone else in the world talked about the great battle between Alonso and Vettel you described it as "Vettel making a hash of passing a slow Alonso" which is the biggest twist of the facts to fit the story I've ever heard. So my point made I won't comment anymore - its very sad that such an obvious racing fan is letting his dislike of a driver get in the way of enjoying one of the top drivers.
I look forward to reading the sematrics of how wrong I am and the obvious reason for it.
Last edited:
Well I thought Ricciardo would do better than Webber, but I certainly didn't expect him to be leading the team. I think he's been the better driver out of the pair this season, however it can't be denied that over the last few races the gap has narrowed and Vettel is catching.
Fair play to Vettel for taking it on the chin too, he could have cried and whined but he hasn't.
I will say that this season has just cast a small shadow of uncertainty over his championships for me. Now we've had a taste of someone who isn't Webber, I really wonder what Hamilton or Alonso could manage in the other Red Bull.
Fair play to Vettel for taking it on the chin too, he could have cried and whined but he hasn't.
I will say that this season has just cast a small shadow of uncertainty over his championships for me. Now we've had a taste of someone who isn't Webber, I really wonder what Hamilton or Alonso could manage in the other Red Bull.
I have said nothing about stats. Please point to where I did that. I can only defend poinjts that I have actually made
For me, whichever of the Merc drivers is WDC will have the "honor" of having a title more rightly attributed to the car than to driver brilliance. The overwhelming superiority of the Merc this season is far greater than anything I have seen since Mansell's WDC. That one, IMHO, will always be tainted because all of the driver "aids" (eg traction control, stability control, ABS etc) took the driver out of the equation in a manner never seen before or since (thank goodness).
I don't see how Vettel having an off year should raise questions about his driving ability or the deservedness of his WDCs. I can't think of a single WDC that didn't have the occasional "off year".
I don't see how Vettel having an off year should raise questions about his driving ability or the deservedness of his WDCs. I can't think of a single WDC that didn't have the occasional "off year".
He certainly is having an off year but rather than raise questions it helps to answer them. The questions were already there. If we are to analyse something then we use constants and variables. Vettel is the constant in his career as are his team-mates. We can therefore use his team-mates as benchmark constants. Variables are his equipment and circumstances on any given day. Play around with all of these and you will find that on all evidence, Vettel is better than Mark Webber on most days and Ricciardo is better than Vettel on most days. Even when Vettel has had problems that have denied him a chance to put something on the scroreboard this year he has been inferior to Ricciardo in almost every element of his driving. Eats tyres, is slower and has inferior racecraft in both attack and defence. I don't seek to dismantle him but circumstances have built him a reputation beyond his worth.
As regards the Mercs, it is very true that Mercedes have an easy ride to the title, but Hamilton or Rosberg certainly do not. That much has been entirely evident from everything we have seen this year. Whoever wins this years championship will have achieved it one of the biggest head-to-heads that this sport has ever seen, if the season continues as it has. I just hope that it's not tainted by the ridiculous double-points at the end of the year.
As regards the Mercs, it is very true that Mercedes have an easy ride to the title, but Hamilton or Rosberg certainly do not. That much has been entirely evident from everything we have seen this year. Whoever wins this years championship will have achieved it one of the biggest head-to-heads that this sport has ever seen, if the season continues as it has. I just hope that it's not tainted by the ridiculous double-points at the end of the year.
That's a bit of a stretch.
Are you sure you don't mean, one of the biggest heads the sport has ever seen.
Being serious though for me a head to head is only truly real when the two drivers are in different teams in cars with different attributes such as Mika and Schumi or Alonso and Schumi with other drivers in the mix taking points off of the both of them, not a couple of equally matched teammates who piss off down the road two seconds a lap faster than anyone else in vastly superior machinery and whoever is the luckiest of the two on the day wins...
Last edited:
Apologies for mentioning Hamilton everybody. It seems to have set Mephistopheles off again. Keep calm and carry on.
[Edit] Almost forgot the winky.
[Edit] Almost forgot the winky.
Last edited:
Sorry Ninja, but when all you have had to worry about the entire season is beating your teammate rather than worrying about a half-dozen other drivers and cars, it makes for one of the easiest WDCs in history IMO, because it means you can concentrate all of your energies on beating only one opponent.
One of the two protagonists is going to be world champion that is definite nobody can argue with that but which one of them?
Toss a coin may be it will land on its edge.
Toss a coin may be it will land on its edge.
With Vettel on the front row I thought that he would do his usual 1.9 seconds in the lead at the end of the first lap. It didn't happen, I wonder why not?
There might have been a clue in his being nearly 2 seconds off pole time!
But I understood from postings made at the end of last season that it was all down to Vettel, not the car. But maybe I should have expected him to be 1.9 seconds faster than everyone else but the pole sitter.
Similar threads
- Article
- Article
- Article
- Article
